NO advance the FK out of 22

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crossref


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A scenario we have often discussed but seldom see.
Quins v Wasps

Quins make a catch and call a mark.
Mark is taken and a Wasps player is trying to block it, never having retired 10m

Nigel Owens advances the mark another 10m ... Which takes it out of the 22m! So it makes it worse. Wasps offend and get an advantage.
 
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Dickie E

Dickie E


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Agree. I've never liked this "offend at a FK and get another FK". Offisde at any other phase gets you a PK.
 
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crossref


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Perhaps a good law change would be to give option... Convert to a PK at the original mark OR to have a FK advanced 10m
 
ChrisR

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Or, advance the FK the 10m but allow the kick to be taken within the 22 without penalty.
 
talbazar

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Marauder said:
Or, advance the FK the 10m but allow the kick to be taken within the 22 without penalty.
Click to expand...
Well, the FK has to be taken on the mark or behind.... So Quins could have still taken the FK inside their 22...
To bad for them they chose not to.

As forThe Fat remark. I'd see no problem with that either. But then PK at the place of infringement...

My 2 cents,
Pierre.
 
Dickie E

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talbazar said:
Well, the FK has to be taken on the mark or behind.... So Quins could have still taken the FK inside their 22...
To bad for them they chose not to.
Click to expand...

But if they did that they would have lost the option of gain in ground if kicked out on full.
 
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RobLev

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talbazar said:
Well, the FK has to be taken on the mark or behind.... So Quins could have still taken the FK inside their 22...
To bad for them they chose not to.

As forThe Fat remark. I'd see no problem with that either. But then PK at the place of infringement...

My 2 cents,
Pierre.
Click to expand...

It's where the FK is awarded, not where it's taken, that decides whether the kicker gains ground when kicking out on the full; Law 19.1(j):

[LAWS]Outside the kicker’s 22, no gain in ground. When a free kick awarded outside the 22 goes directly into touch, the throw-in is in line with where the ball was kicked, or where it went into touch, whichever is nearer the kicker’s goal line.[/LAWS]
 
talbazar

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Ok, my bad guys...
I've learnt something (yet again)...
Cheers,
Pierre.
 
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I'd still like to see a gain in ground from a FK, but loss in possession. Solves this issue nicely...
 
didds

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it would at least give the sanction some teeth in the top 75% of the pitch.

didds
 
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Re : Re: NO advance the FK out of 22

RobLev said:
It's where the FK is awarded, not where it's taken, that decides whether the kicker gains ground when kicking out on the full
Click to expand...

Ah, grasshopper; but is this the original free kick, or has the advancement resulted in a new one being awarded?
 
Dickie E

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Re: Re : Re: NO advance the FK out of 22

4eyesbetter said:
Ah, grasshopper; but is this the original free kick, or has the advancement resulted in a new one being awarded?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter. A FK awarded outside 22 or advanced to outside 22 means that the kicker can't kick directly to touch even if he goes back into his 22.
 
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Re: Re : Re: NO advance the FK out of 22

4eyesbetter said:
Ah, grasshopper; but is this the original free kick, or has the advancement resulted in a new one being awarded?
Click to expand...

It's a new one; the sanction for all infringements against Law 21.8 is (my emphasis):

[LAWS]Sanction: Any infringement by the opposing team results in a second free kick, awarded 10 metres in front of the mark for the first kick. This mark must not be within 5 metres of the goal line. Any player may take the kick. If the referee awards a second free kick, the second free kick is not taken before the referee has made the mark indicating the place of the free kick.[/LAWS]
 
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crossref


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hmm, this question somehow :wink: appears on SAREFEREES today --

Jaco van Heerdon agrees with Talbazar's first instinct --- they can take advanced FK from inside the 22m, and it doesn't count as carried back.


Question: At a free kick the Law says 'Any infringement by the opposing team results in a second free kick, awarded 10 metres in front of the mark for the first kick' Now, if a 10-metre advance takes the new mark outside the kicker's 22, that would be a significant disadvantage the non-offending team (as they can no longer kick for touch with gain-in-ground) In this circumstance would the referee be justified in advancing the mark less than 10 metres, ensuring that the new mark remains just inside the 22?

Jaco van Heerden: Hi Steve

The referee cannot advance more than ten metres nor can he advance less than ten metres...BUT the player can choose not to take the free kick on the mark which the referee makes and take it anywhere perpendicular to the mark towards the player's own goal-line.

JVH
Click to expand...

http://www.sareferees.com/ref-replies/duty-ref-487--jaco-van-heerden/2829619/
 
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I saw that. I subsequently asked for an explicit clarification that this is not considered taking it back.
 
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crossref


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asked who, though? Unless someone asks the IRB themselves, we'll just have a different expert with conficting views.
 
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It does seem to be a bit of an anomaly doesn't it.? I think we have a clear case for allowing an exception - ie that the newly awarded free-kick that takes the ball out of the 22 can still be kicked directly into touch if the team so wishes. I think that would be better than upgrading all to a PK on advancing a FK 10metres.

This situation is only relevant in the last quarter of the pitch, not the other 75% of the pitch so a full PK upgrade wouldn't be that equitable for a technical transgression.
 
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crossref


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i prefer the JVH approach, they can take the kick from inside the 22m and it wouldn't count as taken back.

It makes sense to me - the ball was never taken out of the 22m (although the mark was).

This would be different from any old FK awarded jus toutside the 22m, where to take it back inside would be to take it back.
 
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winchesterref


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crossref said:
asked who, though? Unless someone asks the IRB themselves, we'll just have a different expert with conficting views.
Click to expand...
Which is exactly the same approach as you took with the original qu...

- - - Updated - - -

crossref said:
i prefer the JVH approach, they can take the kick from inside the 22m and it wouldn't count as taken back.

It makes sense to me - the ball was never taken out of the 22m (although the mark was).

This would be different from any old FK awarded jus toutside the 22m, where to take it back inside would be to take it back.
Click to expand...

He half answered. He said you can take it back and he is correct, he ignored the gain in ground part.
 
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