No Wrap - into Touch

[Patrick]

I agree with CBG's point, but it highlights an example of a historical abnormality.

Trip with a foot = illegal
Trip with a hand = legal

Because of course under current laws (and for a very long time) a "tap tackle" is not a tackle by any definition of the laws. unless I suppose the hand actually manages to grasp and hold the ankle 9which is not what is ever attempted)


didds.

Agreed - forensic examination will only get you so far down the rabbit hole. So much has to do with external factors - medical knowledge, athlete conditioning, external sport's influences, equipment changes and innovations, change of social awareness as to safety and the long term effects of head trauma just to name a few.

These kinds of discussions are inevitable with any sport as old and written down as ours. (Are there sports as old and written down as ours - don't think so, not that have survived.).

In my more then humble opinion, I don't really think a 'tap tackle' is a tackle. We all know, it's a 'trip'. The defensive player is making one move that will cause the BC to tangle his own feet and fall. But, again, for now, off topic.

 

[Patrick]

I did it once. On the wing, chasing a kick from the fly-half. The opposing full back got there first and attempted to run away from me. I grabbed hold of his ankle and as he fell over he tried to pull his leg free. That force with his weight behind it dislocated my shoulder. As we hit the ground he had technically been tackled, and my shoulder was knocked back into place.

How much of you can actually still walk OB?

Christ that sounds painful.

 

[Rich_NL]

Rugby ref & tact - I've seen Big Foot more often....

Rich - I should have made it more clear - that part was a suggestion - love to hear what you think would be appropriate and, there is always the possibility they are equal.

Thanks - Patrick

I'll have you know I'm the model of debonair elegance in my communications

I'm not sure why we should want to penalise pushing at all. If it's done dangerously, there's a general law covering it already. But per se, there's never been a law against a push with the hands, as opposed to a shoulder/head charge.

 

[VM75]

I believe a tap tackle could be regarded as a failed tackle just like any other failed tackle. There are quite often subsequent outcomes after what is regarded as an 'ordinary' tackle attempt that lead to a change of direction, falling over etc, At a tap tackle the ball carrier falls over just as they might with a failed wrap tackle around the legs.

Agree,

If anyone considers that a hand-trip (or tap tackle) isn't a desirable action, then it could be deemed under 9.16 , my orange inclusion would remove doubt over whether the single-hand-swipe-style-tap remained legal

9.16. A player must not charge or knock down [or ankle tap/trip ] an opponent carrying the ball without attempting to grasp that player.


assuming that knock down is taken to mean ankle swiped.

 

[Patrick]

I'll have you know I'm the model of debonair elegance in my communications

I'm not sure why we should want to penalise pushing at all. If it's done dangerously, there's a general law covering it already. But per se, there's never been a law against a push with the hands, as opposed to a shoulder/head charge.

Look, this is a common refrain - why add yet another Law when we have a general Law to give the ref plenty of discretion.

I get it.

But, and I don't really want to hi-jack my own thread, specifics with less ref interpretation is one of the top three or five things wrong with modern rugby.

We need to look no farther then the clarification / addition to the contact Laws for players leaping for balls (kicked, passed, etc.).

So much so that 'intent' is now part of the infraction calculus.

We ALL do it with High Tackles.

This is part of the tightening and clean and safe and consistent calls we all need to have.

Not one match I've worked, played or coached escaped the rebellious statement '...that's not how do the do it on TV' or '...his arm slipped up' or '...that's not fair, that player is too short (tall, fat, thin, etc.).

The reason for me bringing this up is simple - a shove is not a push, a push is not a charge, a charge is not a tackle, etc..

Clarity and consistency is what we should strive for.

One man's Dangerous Play is another man's Play On. Not good.

Patrick

 

[crossref]

Patrick you have completely lost me ! I can't work out what exactly you are arguing for.

 

[Rich_NL]

Shoves and pushes involve the hands and arms, are legal and always have been. Charges involve shoulders/bodychecking, illegal. Tackling is holding someone and bringing them to the ground.

I don't think pushing should be illegal, it's consistently not reffed that way for adults. Do you think a law is necessary to specifically permit it, or forbid it?

 

[crossref]

Yes, I think it was a lot clearer in the old Law Book where there was a specific law that permitted you to push the ball carrier