Not straight advantage....

[menace]

Had this in my game yesterday, I'm comfortable with my decision and wouldn't change it if it happened again but referee coach thinks I have it wrong... interested in how others might have handled it.

Green lineout. I'm at the back of the lineout (I have an AR). It's a shockingly crooked long throw. While the ball is in the air I signal advantage to white and say 'advantage, not straight'. As the ball comes down green back of lineout player steps out of the line and just kicks the ball (in frustration?) back towards the line...at that moment I see that a White player has come through the lineout and collects the ball....what do you do next?
A. Play on (advantage over)
B. blow up for the not straight and offer white options
C. Something else.

 

[Dickie E]

C (msf)

 

[talbazar]

C (msf)

Very enlightening answer Dickie :bday:

I reckon I would go for A... I don't see a reason to blow there...

 

[menace]

Yes dickie...pray tell...what would your C be?

 

[didds]

I'm struggling to picture this in my mind - however..

If you hadn;t been so quick to signal advantage and this had all happened "faster" - what woud you have dione?

From what I think happened, I think its play-on, playing advantage for the crooked throw.

the only thing that may change things is that (I think! from the decsription!) white now have possession ahead of the gain line. if they make a break or successfully recycle from where white collected the ball then its probably advantage over (territorial advantage)

didds

 

[The Fat]

Had this in my game yesterday, I'm comfortable with my decision and wouldn't change it if it happened again but referee coach thinks I have it wrong... interested in how others might have handled it.

Green lineout. I'm at the back of the lineout (I have an AR). It's a shockingly crooked long throw. While the ball is in the air I signal advantage to white and say 'advantage, not straight'. As the ball comes down green back of lineout player steps out of the line and just kicks the ball (in frustration?) back towards the line...at that moment I see that a White player has come through the lineout and collects the ball....what do you do next?
A. Play on (advantage over)
B. blow up for the not straight and offer white options
C. Something else.

I would say A.
Playing advantage for the crooked throw and the ball is kicked forward by the green player and not knocked or thrown forward. I know that white have the option of LO or scrum but I would see if an advantage accrues before stopping play. If no advantage gained we can always come back for the options. White player is in possession with probably most of the forwards still at the line of touch and oppo backs 10m back. Advantage should be gained fairly quickly.
Is the assessor saying that because green played the ball (i.e. kicked it), you should blow and offer white their options?

 

[didds]

here's another scenario which may make the decsion clearer (or not!!)

if when green kicked the ball it had sliced off his boot and gone into touch 20m closer to his own line... wiould you have given options at the initial loine out or a line out 20m upfield to white?

I'm not saying the 2nd option is 100% correct - but I think you'd have a hard sell to white if you didn't..


3rd scenario... green player instead of kicking ball catches it, is tackled and turned over in the tackle, white posession.

4th scenario - as 3rd but green is PKd for not releasing post tackle.

These alls say "play on" to me - its just a matter of judging when any advantage being played is over, and for this situation it probably white possession having passed the gain line (or they kick it away under no pressure)

didds.

 

[menace]

I'm struggling to picture this in my mind - however..

If you hadn;t been so quick to signal advantage and this had all happened "faster" - what woud you have dione?

From what I think happened, I think its play-on, playing advantage for the crooked throw.

the only thing that may change things is that (I think! from the decsription!) white now have possession ahead of the gain line. if they make a break or successfully recycle from where white collected the ball then its probably advantage over (territorial advantage)

didds

Sorry if description is dodgy.. I can't think of another way of wording it.

I guess I can add that after white collect the ball cleanly they make an immediate break.

 

[Browner]

Sorry if description is dodgy.. I can't think of another way of wording it.

I guess I can add that after white collect the ball cleanly they make an immediate break.

A.
"Advantage taken, advantage over"

 

[Dickie E]

Yes dickie...pray tell...what would your C be?

Play on - advantage not yet over

 

[menace]

Ok. It seems everyone agrees with me. What I did was to allow an advantage. White made a clear break ("advantage over") and go onto touch down. I award the try. (No complaints from green, and I hear the player that kicked the ball away apologise to his team mates).

My assessor thinks I should have whistled straight away as soon as the ball left the lineout. He thinks I played "double advantage" and it was unfair to green to have played on because they heard me say 'not straight' and therefore kicked the ball away and had stopped playing.

Yes it was a bit of a speculator advantage, and no way should have white even got the ball, but I certainly was going to wait until the ball was in greens possession before I was going to whistle. But once I saw the player shaping to kick it away I took a breath and just waited to see what happened.

 

[Dickie E]

I'm struggling to see your assessor's point.

A blue player knocks on, ref calls "advantage", blue player kicks ball in frustration, red player gathers ball and runs and scores.

How are these scenarios different?

Although there is a school of thought that the referee should not call "advantage" as a short hand way of telling everyone that he has seen an offence.

 

[menace]

Me too dickie...
And the knock on situation went through my head at the time so that's why I held back the whistle to see what would happen next.

I think the quizzical wtf look on my face when he raised it, and my subsequent "I don't agree with you" had him conceding he'll think about it a big more. But his basis was that everyone relaxed as I was signalling advantage and until the kick away white were not looking like contesting through the lineout to get the ball. Green relaxed, white stayed alert. Play to the whistle!

 

[crossref]

Nevertheless It sounds like something odd possibly happened to cause green to stop playing? Something subtle in the tone, or sequence of words you used ?

 

[Dickie E]

everyone relaxed as I was signalling advantage and until the kick away white were not looking like contesting through the lineout to get the ball. Green relaxed, white stayed alert. Play to the whistle!

had a similar event on Saturday (these guys were Colts so synapses presumably still a work in progress).

Blue attacking player knocks-on while in the action of scoring a try. Ball rolls into hands of Red defender. Everyone stops & looks at me. "Blue knock-on. Advantage Red" says I. Flummoxed & panicking defender throws ball to team mate well in front of him. Scrum back for orginal knock on.

 

[menace]

Nevertheless It sounds like something odd possibly happened to cause green to stop playing? Something subtle in the tone, or sequence of words you used ?

Quite possibly? Though my assessor only saw my hand signals as I was not wired up ( I only told him what I said when he raised the issue with me). He obviously saw the green body language. Not sure what else I should of said. I thought I was pretty clear.
This was a country first grade game, so the players have been playing a long time and know their rugby. Unusual for them not to play to the whistle. I guess it's instances like this that again reminds them to always play to the whistle.

Ps green were getting thumped so I think they just switched off for a bit.

 

[crossref]

had a similar event on Saturday (these guys were Colts so synapses presumably still a work in progress).

Blue attacking player knocks-on while in the action of scoring a try. Ball rolls into hands of Red defender. Everyone stops & looks at me. "Blue knock-on. Advantage Red" says I. Flummoxed & panicking defender throws ball to team mate well in front of him. Scrum back for orginal knock on.

in my game, yellow knocked on over the line, an into the hands of a red defender. He just stood still holdiong the ball and yellow stopped playing, slightly confused, and he leapt into action and set off on a counter attack, from which red scored. It was well done.

 

[TheBFG]

whats that old saying :chin:


Ah yes "play to the whistle"