[RWC] Not straight

[Wedgie]

How many not straight scrum put in's have been called so far in the RWC?

 

[Phil E]

How many not straight scrum put in's have been called so far in the RWC?

Is this a trick question?

 

[irishref]

I'll bite: zero!

 

[didds]

Its clear that feeding is well and prospering, at all tiers.

so much foe PoB's clarion cry several years ago.

didds

 

[Wedgie]

It is an honest question. I have watched maybe 75% of the matches and don't recall one....

 

[Taff]

I haven't seen many games yet, but I don't remember the feeds being that daft. At least not in the games I've seen.

 

[beckett50]

I've seen one not straight pinged. Can't recall the game but think it was the match after Japan beat RSA as I was listening in the car on the way back from Leigh RFC.

IIRC Mr. Dawson was apoplectic with rage because the feed that was pinged was no more crooked than any that went before or after.

 

[Iron_Lung]

I've seen one not straight pinged. Can't recall the game but think it was the match after Japan beat RSA as I was listening in the car on the way back from Leigh RFC.

IIRC Mr. Dawson was apoplectic with rage because the feed that was pinged was no more crooked than any that went before or after.

I think that's the issue (consistency) isn't it? Wallabies vs Fiji wasn't perfect but was better than some and it led to a far more interesting contest at the scrum due to the need to hook the ball or move the scrum. I think that it should be consistently enforced with reasonable guidelines. The trigger I'd been using when it was a focus was to determine if the ball would have come out the otherside unmolested if noone moved their feet. That allowed for scrum movement, slightly off center, slightly crooked... a scrum version of inside shoulders at the lineout.

I can't think of a reason to not enforce it other than the powers that be might consider it to be reducing the completion rate further?

 

[Gracie]

I think that's the issue (consistency) isn't it? Wallabies vs Fiji wasn't perfect but was better than some and it led to a far more interesting contest at the scrum due to the need to hook the ball or move the scrum. I think that it should be consistently enforced with reasonable guidelines. The trigger I'd been using when it was a focus was to determine if the ball would have come out the otherside unmolested if noone moved their feet. That allowed for scrum movement, slightly off center, slightly crooked... a scrum version of inside shoulders at the lineout.

I can't think of a reason to not enforce it other than the powers that be might consider it to be reducing the completion rate further?

No apology Iron Lung but straight is straight and in the vast majority of cases it has not been. Consistently wrong simply does not make it right. At club level, my experience is that we enforce it based upon the law book, not on 'entertainment' value. What makes it seem worse is that all too often refs in the WC do not appear to be even looking for it.

 

[didds]

It is hardly difficult to propel the ball parallel to the goal lines with one end of the ball jusrt running alongside themidline, and the vast lajority of the ball closer to your own hooker. that is advantage enough surely?

didds

 

[Decorily]

It is hardly difficult to propel the ball parallel to the goal lines with one end of the ball jusrt running alongside themidline, and the vast lajority of the ball closer to your own hooker. that is advantage enough surely?

didds

Of course its not difficult....but why would you do it when you don't need to?

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

They have to do it in my games. 2 not straight free kicks and one foot up yesterday

 

[timmad]

Agreed CT. And now in the RWC it has spread to the line-out. How many contestable balls are thrown in? And it's such any easy thing when there are ARs to advise the ref.

 

[Iron_Lung]

No apology Iron Lung but straight is straight and in the vast majority of cases it has not been. Consistently wrong simply does not make it right. At club level, my experience is that we enforce it based upon the law book, not on 'entertainment' value. What makes it seem worse is that all too often refs in the WC do not appear to be even looking for it.

I don't disagree, I was just looking for a reason that it might not be enforced. I think it should be enforced as it makes for a better contest at the scrum, something which is integral to the game as far as I'm concerned.

I thing saying "straight is straight" doesn't make allowance for all of the variables that go into a scrum, hence I give it a little bit of latitude. However if the ball would hit the front rows feet on the line it was fed (as we often see at the world cup and highest level) then you have to call it don't you?

It's always going to be an issue for community refs when we blow something that a top ref wouldn't. The players get confused and frustrated, particularly if it changes week to week. I'd much rather see consistency between the guidence from the IRB and what I see on TV each week.

 

[Pegleg]

It really is simple.

Whatever claptrap they speak in public, the evidence is clear. Our game is split into two. WE have an elite game where collaspsed scrums and crooked feeds are allowed (in the interests of continuity) and the community game where that latitude is not allowed.


The abuse of the present laws in the areas I mention would have to lead to refs being marked down by "WR". Hiwever, that is not happening.

It really is time thwt WR was honest and they published two law books. At least that would stop some of the constant moans from Journalists, the media and supporters that the refs at the top are bordering on cheating.

 

[menace]

It is an honest question. I have watched maybe 75% of the matches and don't recall one....

In the scheme of things...I'd say they have bigger fish to fry. Like square and steady and seeing which clown is collapsing it. Priorities. If everything else is perfect at scrum time then worry about the feed. Sadly there are plenty of other things not working at scrum time that need full attention of the referee.

 

[Taff]

In the scheme of things...I'd say they have bigger fish to fry. Like square and steady and seeing which clown is collapsing it. Priorities. If everything else is perfect at scrum time then worry about the feed. Sadly there are plenty of other things not working at scrum time that need full attention of the referee.

To me, this is the perfect reason why we need to make sure there is a straight feed.

If one pack knows they haven't got a hope in hell of winning the ball (because it's being chucked in directly to the 2nd Row) they have too much time on their hands and will spend it dreaming up more and more devious ways of making life as awkward as possible for the opposition - whether that is pulling the opponent down, wheeling the scrum, twisting, hinging, pulling it forward etc etc etc.

Now ... while there is a good chance that they may actually legally win the ball (by the ball being chucked in straight) their minds are taken off the general fannnying (above) and applied to getting the ball back - which makes life a lot easier for everybody, including us Refs.

And if I'm being honest, perhaps I'm a bit strange, but I for one actually like the sanction escalation for crooked feeds (ie FK, PK, PK and warning, PK and :noyc it adds a whole new level of excitement to the game.

 

[Pegleg]

Indeed give me a chance to contest the ball and I'll have a go for it. Remove that option and all I can try is disruption.

 

[Darryl Godden]

Perhaps a cause rather than a symptom, the hooking has been non-existent.

 

[OB..]

If one pack knows they haven't got a hope in hell of winning the ball (because it's being chucked in directly to the 2nd Row) they have too much time on their hands and will spend it dreaming up more and more devious ways of making life as awkward as possible for the opposition - whether that is pulling the opponent down, wheeling the scrum, twisting, hinging, pulling it forward etc etc etc.

I am positive they work on these things already.

Yes, if they know there is going to be a credible feed, they will add that to their skill set, while knowing that the odds are against them. Their best chance lies in going for the steal when least expected, not all the time.