[Law] Not taking the advantage.

[didds]

we've been here plenty of times before so its apologies for the regurgitation.

Scrum/FK/PK advantage - but the team with advantage doesn't want it.

Gregan started (?) the concept of the deliberate knock -on ... I'm really uncomfortable about that approach as it seems to most definitely break two PK'-able laws of the game. I appreciate others don't have this issue!

there is the general idea of "no advantage please ref" from the skipper/whoever - which seems fair enough presuming the ref hears OK and the ball carrier doesn't end up wearing the opposition who are playing to the whistle while the BC doesn't want to actually do anything that could be called advantage over!

Just a thought... what about the ball carrier putting the ball on the floor and backing off? It looks daft I totally accept!

The worst case scenario is the other side also just stand and look at it! (so just blow)


If the BC kicked the ball BACKWARDS ie towards own DBL would that count as kciking away advantage (under no pressure) etc?

didds

 

[Pegleg]

Gregan started (?) the concept of the deliberate knock -on ... I'm really uncomfortable about that approach as it seems to most definitely break two PK'-able laws of the game. I appreciate others don't have this issue!

Would you realy expect the ref to give a PK for it rather than go back for the first offence?

 

[crossref]

I think that almost always the 9 or the skipper can say "scrum please" and the ref will blow.

If the ref is too far away (or too distracted) to hear him ask, the ref will probably miss the deliberate knock on, for the same reason.

 

[didds]

Would you realy expec the ref to give a PK for it rather than go back for the first offence?

seeing as the laws say its a PK-able offense why wouldn't he?

I presume refs normally award PKs for PK-able offences? [caveat advantage . Oh, hold on... ]

didds

 

[Pegleg]

I just don't see it happening. The refs will call a KO on the basis that it's not C&O deliberate. Or something similar. Sadly it is a convention that that been allowed and I can't see the genie being put back into the bottle.

 

[Pegleg]

I think that almost always the 9 or the skipper can say "scrum please" and the ref will blow.

If the ref is too far away (or too distracted) to hear him ask, the ref will probably miss the deliberate knock on, for the same reason.

Indeed they can and the ref will. But we all know that us not how it's done. Do you really think it will change?


If yes: Ping the beggers and make a stand. I'm sure it is worth being seen as the local jobsworth if you do.


If no: Why lose sleep over it. Accept it and give the scrum.

 

[DocY]

There is one situation in which I like them to do something obvious, actually.

After one game during the season just gone I came off the pitch to an assessor saying "you didn't play advantage to blue very well!" when almost every infringement I had a blue player in my ear saying "scrum please, ref".

In that case, something obvious to someone on the touchline would have been nice, but that's very much the exception and the first time a player does it I'll ask them not to again (and debate it with the assessor afterwards if I have to).

Kinda puts me into a difficult situation though - I wouldn't have much to fall back on if they keep on with the deliberate knock ons. That's not happened yet though.

 

[Wert Twacky]

The simplest and easiest way I have found to deal with this is covering it pre-match to captain and scrum-half.
Explain that if they don't want the advantage when you offer it to their team, could they please tell you and not throw the ball away as, like suggested above, it looks... well, shit.

Works for me anyway.

 

[crossref]

I hardly ever see it happen - it just doesn't seem to be a 'thing' in the competitions I ref in - If they don't want the advantage they just say.

Generally they want to have a go at the advantage. - I reckon that not wanting the adv is more of a pro thing, where kickers are better and a LOT more of the PKs are kickable for a reliable three points.

 

[Phil E]

I have had one deliberate knock on to claim the advantage in 10 years of refereeing.
Normally if they want it, they ask for it......and I give it.

 

[Taff]

Sadly it is a convention that that been allowed and I can't see the genie being put back into the bottle.

I don't see a problem with it. It's been standard practice for decades surely.

.... After one game during the season just gone I came off the pitch to an assessor saying "you didn't play advantage to blue very well!" when almost every infringement I had a blue player in my ear saying "scrum please, ref".

Then there's your answer right there "They told me they didn't want the advantage".

 

[didds]

I don't see a problem with it. It's been standard practice for decades surely.

The first time I recall it was Gregan - so maybe A decade.

I guess I just find it uncompfortable that a deliberate infraction becomes the norm. It just doesn't look good. I accept that this is just me.


So going back to the suggestion that a BC just puts the ball down and steps away?

didds

 

[DocY]

The first time I recall it was Gregan - so maybe A decade.

I guess I just find it uncompfortable that a deliberate infraction becomes the norm. It just doesn't look good. I accept that this is just me.


So going back to the suggestion that a BC just puts the ball down and steps away?

didds

It's not just you who doesn't like it, but it's difficult to see what referees can do about it.

Putting the ball down and stepping away seems a silly idea - it'd likely cause an unnecessary pile of bodies as everyone jumps on it.

I do think that a visible signal (as well as shouting at the ref) would help though - something like players have started doing when calling a mark, perhaps.

It goes back further than Gregan, by the way - it was originally known as the Roux gambit after Johan Roux from the early/mid 90s.