Off side at the tackle

[JDET]

I am looking for clarification on a point in the game that always seems to cause some debate in the club house. The point in question is when a player is tackled and the tackler is quick to his feet, does he have to move round 'through the gate' to an on side postition before he can make a attempt for the ball or is there no such off side line because the ball is considered in open play.

 

[Simonsky]

As a new ref, this is an area that has got me confused and pinging players (I've only done two games!). Having brought this question up myself on this site, the answer has been: tackler who gets back on feet does not have to go via gate and can play the ball from any angle -all arriving players must go via gate.

 

[OB..]

There is no offside at the tackle. The significance of this is that players nowhere near the tackle are not affected by the tackle law, whereas at a ruck, for example, the far winger can be offside.

The law defines three types of player: the tackler(s), the tackled player, and other players. It is only the last group who have to enter the tackle zone through the gate. A tackler is defined as having gone to ground in the tackle.
Law 15.4 (c)

The tackler must get up before playing the ball and then may play the ball from any​

direction.

 

[Dickie E]

The thing to be careful about is to distinguish between a "tackler" who goes to ground himself (he doesn't have to go through gate) and a "tackler*" who doesn't go to ground (he has to enter through the gate).

* technically this player isn't a "tackler", eventhough he has caused the ball carrier to be tackled.

 

[Simonsky]

The thing to be careful about is to distinguish between a "tackler" who goes to ground himself (he doesn't have to go through gate) and a "tackler*" who doesn't go to ground (he has to enter through the gate).

* technically this player isn't a "tackler", eventhough he has caused the ball carrier to be tackled.

Good point Dickie
- this can be tricky to supervise if there are two would be tacklers and only one goes to ground so the one grounded can get up and play but the one still on feet has to be on his goal line side of ball like the other approching players.

 

[Simon Thomas]

As my learned colleague OB and Simonsky say the tackler is not offside once he regains his feet and does not have to come back into the tackle through the gate.

Where we get more confusion is that players (tackler) may be not be releasing the ball as they stand up (just watch McCaw), or the referee's perception sees things (he sees tackler release ball for nano second) that complicates the interpretations.

Is the tackler getting all the way up, or is he resting on tackled players body, is the tackled player releasing the ball to the player on his feet, or hanging on longer than he should to twist and place it behind him, or help a late arriving coleague seal it in ?

At the Elite and National League levels it all happens so fast, the referee has only an (delete : instance) instant to make his decision.

 

[Dixie]

the referee has only an instance to make his decision.

Which is a fraction longer than an instant, though in practical terms the difference is so small as to be irrelevant

 

[Phil E]

Which is a fraction longer than an instant, though in practical terms the difference is so small as to be irrelevant

10 bob says he blames his blackberry?

 

[Dixie]

10 bob says he blames his blackberry?

:biggrin: :clap: Never let it be said that he's become predictable

 

[Simon Thomas]

nothing to do with my blackberry, just an appalling waste of an expensive education in this instance (as an individual illustrative of word confusion, but which has no temporal constraints) and corrected in an instant (which is a temporal definition) using edit !

 

[Toby Warren]

How long before a tackler becomes a non tackler?

So for example tackler makes tackle rolls away hobbles a little bit then remembers he can play the ball say 2-3 seconds later.

Is he still a tackler?
What happens if a ruck forms in that 2-3 seconds (can he enter on the wrong side?)

 

[Dixie]

Is he still a tackler?
What happens if a ruck forms in that 2-3 seconds (can he enter on the wrong side?)

He is still the tackler. However, the reason he doesn't need to enter the tackle area through the gate is because he's there already. He can't leave the tackle area t0o hobbler, then return to it other than through the gate, IMO. I accept that's an indirect extrapolation from the laws, rather than a direct requirement.

The tackler only has superior rights at a tackle. Once that phase is over and a ruck forms, the tackler is treated same as everyone else - join level with the rearmost foot.

 

[Toby Warren]

He is still the tackler. However, the reason he doesn't need to enter the tackle area through the gate is because he's there already. He can't leave the tackle area t0o hobbler, then return to it other than through the gate, IMO. I accept that's an indirect extrapolation from the laws, rather than a direct requirement.

The tackler only has superior rights at a tackle. Once that phase is over and a ruck forms, the tackler is treated same as everyone else - join level with the rearmost foot.

But he must roll away!

 

[Phil E]

But he must roll away!

OR get up.

 

[Toby Warren]

OR get up.

So he rolls and gets up - is he still a tackler?

 

[Phil E]

So he rolls and gets up - is he still a tackler?

As long as he is still in the vicinity of the tackle area.

 

[Toby Warren]

As long as he is still in the vicinity of the tackle area.

So I re ask the question when does he stop being the tackler 2 seconds? formation of the ruck end of the ruck? end of the phase?

 

[OB..]

So I re ask the question when does he stop being the tackler 2 seconds? formation of the ruck end of the ruck? end of the phase?

The question has been answered.
(1) when/if he leaves the tackle zone.
(2) when the tackle is over eg ruck forms; ball leaves the tackle zone.

 

[Simonsky]

Where we get more confusion is that players (tackler) may be not be releasing the ball as they stand up (just watch McCaw), or the referee's perception sees things (he sees tackler release ball for nano second) that complicates the interpretations.

ST- probably me being daft here but I don't really get what you mean here: you refer to the 'tackler' not releasing the ball; do you mean the tackler releases tacklee then gets up and grabs ball -but surely he doesn;t have to release at this point? Elaboration for the dull-witted please!

 

[OB..]

It is common in a bear hug tackle for the tackler to roll over while holding the tackled player down and keeping his hands on the ball. It is illegal, but often done so quickly it is hard to differentiate from the legal procedure. I think both McCaw and O'Driscoll have excellent technique on the edge of legality, but legal much more often than not.