Offside after a kick Bath vs Gloucester

[Balones]

In addition to what Duckie E said, as I suggested in a previous post, the ‘all retreat’ approach might have some limitations because of perhaps having nobody available to put teammates onside. I have been at a match when the last player (full back) collected the ball, booted it up the pitch and then fell over and dislocated his hip!
I think what we need is a combination of all retreat until the ball lands alongside the receiver moving more than the now required 5M. Or something along these lines and perhaps an increase in the 10M law.

 

[Harry]

How about.
If the ball is kicked from your half you have to retreat behind the halfway line.

 

[Dickie E]

In addition to what Duckie E said, as I suggested in a previous post, the ‘all retreat’ approach might have some limitations because of perhaps having nobody available to put teammates onside. I have been at a match when the last player (full back) collected the ball, booted it up the pitch and then fell over and dislocated his hip!
I think what we need is a combination of all retreat until the ball lands alongside the receiver moving more than the now required 5M. Or something along these lines and perhaps an increase in the 10M law.

How about this: nothing the receiving team does puts an offside player onside, ie only an onside team mate running past you puts you onside. That would cut down the aerial ping pong.

For Balones unusual & rare "kicker fell over" scenario, a team mate of the kicker would have to run back to in line with the kick then run forward to put team mates onside. In reality, what would happen is the fullback would make sure he had a winger behind him before hoofing the ball upfield.

 

[crossref]

How about this: nothing the receiving team does puts an offside player onside,

well, what about when they kick it back

 

[didds]

I'm not a fan of the 'everyone retreat' idea. There are often the remains of phases of play in front of the kicker (scrums, rucks, etc) where it would be unreasonable to expect those players to instantly retreat

and you could end up in the scenario whereby eg tight fives just spend a lot of effort running backwards 15m to run forwards 15m to run backwards 15m ....

 

[Dickie E]

well, what about when they kick it back

can you explain that a bit more please

 

[Dickie E]

and you could end up in the scenario whereby eg tight fives just spend a lot of effort running backwards 15m to run forwards 15m to run backwards 15m ....

yes indeed. From a referee PoV it would be difficult to manage. #10 kicks the ball and tight 5 don't immediately retire because they're still bound in the scrum. Penalty?

 

[crossref]

can you explain that a bit more please

That must put opponents onside

 

[crossref]

Here is the passage of play

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1744017526991024182

 

[didds]

How about.
If the ball is kicked from your half you have to retreat behind the halfway line.

that works until the ball is caught on the catchers 10m line inside the catcher's half, and the "offside" player steps behind the half way line. Same scenario.

 

[Harry]

that works until the ball is caught on the catchers 10m line inside the catcher's half, and the "offside" player steps behind the half way line. Same scenario.

True, but when we play kick tennis from deep in each 22 the receiver can run forward unopposed to halfway. Thus making long kicks less profitable.

 

[crossref]

I'm not a fan of the 'everyone retreat' idea. There are often the remains of phases of play in front of the kicker (scrums, rucks, etc) where it would be unreasonable to expect those players to instantly retreat

it's a good point, but I thunk we can handle it this way

The key law is 10.4.a

10.4 An offside player may be penalised, if that player: (a) Interferes with play;

so we just give guidance on that --
- any player in open space who is not retreating by default is interfering with play
- (guidance : ignore players who are injured or who are vast distances away, similarly ignore players still caught up in the remains of a scrum/ruck/maul and/or still getting up from the ground

With that guidance it would be easy to pick out and PK players in the the seqeunce above.

I wonder if we should also look at the law on charge downs : was it equitable that that small touch played all the kicking team onside?

 

[didds]

so we just give guidance on that --
- any player in open space who is not retreating by default is interfering with play

that is in contravention of what the law currently says of course

Offside after a kick Bath vs Gloucester

During the game today Bath were using what I thought was an illegal strategy when kicking during open play. They would have a player deep in their own end receive a deep kick from Gloucester and in turn kick it deep into Gloucester’s half. Bath players in front of the kicker (upwards of 30-40...

forum.rugbyrefs.com

 

[crossref]

that is in contravention of what the law currently says of course

Offside after a kick Bath vs Gloucester

During the game today Bath were using what I thought was an illegal strategy when kicking during open play. They would have a player deep in their own end receive a deep kick from Gloucester and in turn kick it deep into Gloucester’s half. Bath players in front of the kicker (upwards of 30-40...

forum.rugbyrefs.com

not sure it is really -- yes it is the opposite of how we currently apply/interpret the Law, but that's not the same thing.

we can easily decide that just standing still in space can interfere with play by cutting down options.

 

[didds]

we can decide that.

But as it stands the law actually states standing 10m away and waiting for the BC to run 5m is legal.

 

[crossref]

we can decide that.

But as it stands the law actually states standing 10m away and waiting for the BC to run 5m is legal.

It doesn't actually state that (although that is how we interpret it)
What it actually states that you can't interfere with play

WR could steer us into a different interpretation.. that standing 10m away IS interfering with play

 

[didds]

well I can stand 30m away from the catcher, from a kick that is made 20m behind me, and where nobody on my own team puts me on side.
Am I interfering with play? But i can still tackle the catcher and BC that runs 30m and ends up next to me.

Am I interfering with play ?

 

[jdeagro]

well I can stand 30m away from the catcher, from a kick that is made 20m behind me, and where nobody on my own team puts me on side.
Am I interfering with play? But i can still tackle the catcher and BC that runs 30m and ends up next to me.

Am I interfering with play ?

I was thinking the same as crossref on this recently. 10m is really not that far from the guy receiving the ball. Most times they are making a decision to kick or pass the ball because of the defender who is only 10m away in front of them. Obviously if there was no defender there, that ball catcher would be more apt to run it forward instead. So I do think just standing there has an effect on play i.e. interfering with it. To crossref's point, the law just hasn't been applied in such manner.

 

[number11]

Conversely, the catcher doesn't have to run 5 meters. They could catch the ball then line up a kick from a standing position. Then opposing players would have to be back 10 meters from the ball and remain standing still.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

I'm not a fan of the 'everyone retreat' idea. There are often the remains of phases of play in front of the kicker (scrums, rucks, etc) where it would be unreasonable to expect those players to instantly retreat

Agree Dickie, but once on their feet, there is no reason they can't retire.
Obliviously they could do it very slowly and no doubt would so I'm now thinking increase the 10 to 15M