Offside after a kick Bath vs Gloucester

[Volun-selected]

Another potential solution, keep the 10m law and gut 7b with:
Law 10.4c, an offside player can be put onside when:
7b) An opponent of that player:
Carries the ball five metres; or
Passes the ball; or
Kicks the ball; or
Intentionally touches the ball without gaining possession of it.

Gives the catcher a couple of seconds to play or kick and forces opponents to get back 10 to stop them mugging the kicker, but makes it simple(r) for us?

 

[Balones]

Scotland v France. R.I.P. the 10M law as we know it.
WR will have to act after this debacle in the second half surely.

 

[BikingBud]

Another potential solution, keep the 10m law and gut 7b with:
Law 10.4c, an offside player can be put onside when:
7b) An opponent of that player:
Carries the ball five metres; or
Passes the ball; or
Kicks the ball; or
Intentionally touches the ball without gaining possession of it.

Gives the catcher a couple of seconds to play or kick and forces opponents to get back 10 to stop them mugging the kicker, but makes it simple(r) for us?

A whole couple of seconds?

We saw many more than a few seconds while the whole game stopped in Scotland v France, I would offer that if Scotland had focussed on positive play they may have got a different result.

 

[crossref]

Scotland v France. R.I.P. the 10M law as we know it.
WR will have to act after this debacle in the second half surely.

Explain a little ? (I didn't see it,)

 

[Locke]

Explain a little ? (I didn't see it,)

There was a kick tennis session with multiple consecutive kicks where 29 players were standing still for multiple seconds while the ball was in play. It looked ridiculous.

 

[BikingBud]

Be interested to see what the ball tech says about this period and then superimpose the player motion.

In fact we could apply the tech much better across all aspects of the game. It should be trivial to determine offside lines for kicks, rucks, mauls, tackles etc put appropriate tech into the shirts and change them to flashing yellow and red and visibly marked as offside until they are back onside.

Or perhaps use the Squid Games concept Red Light - Green Light

 

[didds]

Scotland v France. R.I.P. the 10M law as we know it.
WR will have to act after this debacle in the second half surely.

I rather liked Scotland's solution

Of course it only works until the kicker or onside player runs 50m

 

[Balones]

Explain a little ? (I didn't see it,)

It wasn’t just the offside players that were standing still. We had the receiver (quite often Russell) standing still and just waiting for offside players to lose patience and perhaps move forward and get penalised.

 

[didds]

It wasn’t just the offside players that were standing still. We had the receiver (quite often Russell) standing still and just waiting for offside players to lose patience and perhaps move forward and get penalised.

... or waiting for his own players to advance to a position 10.1m from where he was about to kick the ball to land ....
either way it was a excellent C&O demonstration of where the laws have got the game to

 

[Locke]

The absurdity of the laws being exposed is @didds dream situation

 

[Jz558]

If the law was changed so that no player could be put onside by the actions of the opposition then that would help. I understand that there remains the possibility of the kicker, being the hindmost player on the field, being injured on/after kicking and being unable to play his team on side but, in reality, how often would that happen? The benefits would seem to outweigh the potential downside.

 

[didds]

The absurdity of the laws being exposed is @didds dream situation

to some degree yes. Foolish laws need exposing for what they are, and not wrapped in some sort of emperor's new clothes approach. Lets just be honest.

 

[didds]

If the law was changed so that no player could be put onside by the actions of the opposition then that would help. I understand that there remains the possibility of the kicker, being the hindmost player on the field, being injured on/after kicking and being unable to play his team on side but, in reality, how often would that happen? The benefits would seem to outweigh the potential downside.

Or it becomes two passes, running 20m or some such. Though whatever it is it needs to be simple to referee.

The issue is finding the balance here. I'm not keen on a scenario whereby a "last man incapacitated" scenario makes a mockery of things, though I accept it rarely happens.

 

[Stu10]

As a fly half, am I the only person that enjoys this kick tennis and appreciates the strategy going on within the kicking duel?

 

[Locke]

As a fly half, am I the only person that enjoys this kick tennis and appreciates the strategy going on within the kicking duel?

I have some tolerance for a certain amount of kick tennis but the show on the weekend is not sustainable for the sport, in my opinion. It’s not the kick tennis I have the issue with, it’s the way the laws are being exploited. Fair play to the players, as it is (arguably) legal. But WR needs to address the current response to offside immediately.

For me, addressing it could include a clarification that offside players who are standing still may be interfering with play, depending on where they are on the field in relation to the ball, and may be liable to sanction, per 10.4.a.
A player who happened to be 2m in front of the kicker and 50m from where the ball lands is not interfering with play and need not actively retreat.
A player who is 11m from where the ball lands and stands there, rather than retreating, is interfering with play and should be penalized.
That’s my solution.

 

[crossref]

As a fly half, am I the only person that enjoys this kick tennis and appreciates the strategy going on within the kicking duel?

I don't mind it at all
I love the way rugby offers endless opportunities for innovation , and once a team hits on a new tactic, people then develop useful counter tactics. It's a big part of why I love the game! It enables a smaller, quick-witted team, compete with a larger, less flexible one.

I hate the way the knee jerk reaction of many when they see an innovation is to quickly ban it :-(

Just let it breathe for a few months...it will likely go away of its own accord. If it really doesn't , then tinker a law a little

 

[Stu10]

I have some tolerance for a certain amount of kick tennis but the show on the weekend is not sustainable for the sport, in my opinion. It’s not the kick tennis I have the issue with, it’s the way the laws are being exploited. Fair play to the players, as it is (arguably) legal. But WR needs to address the current response to offside immediately.

For me, addressing it could include a clarification that offside players who are standing still may be interfering with play, depending on where they are on the field in relation to the ball, and may be liable to sanction, per 10.4.a.
A player who happened to be 2m in front of the kicker and 50m from where the ball lands is not interfering with play and need not actively retreat.
A player who is 11m from where the ball lands and stands there, rather than retreating, is interfering with play and should be penalized.
That’s my solution.

Despite my previous comment, I do agree with you. If those defending players were not where they are, the ball carrier might be more inclined to run the ball back, which would be more exciting for players and spectators.

 

[Harry]

Maybe we need a word with the TV people.
If we could see on TV the tactical side of kick tennis and maybe if the commentators understood it and explained it it would become acceptable to the TV viewer.
If you're at the match with a decent view it sometimes makes sense, but often to me it just seems teams are kicking away possession.

 

[crossref]

If the law was changed so that no player could be put onside by the actions of the opposition then that would help. I

that wouldn't quite work - what if the opposition hoof the ball straight back? that must put you onside again.

If I was going to change the Law (I wouldn't at the moment), I think I would go for 'everyone in front of the kicker must retreat until put onside'

This would have the added advantage of rendering 10.4.c redundant.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

I did like the fact that Finn Russel regularly took the p*ss out of the current Law and just stood there and even threw a few dummies trying to draw the french offside.