One hooker says to another, "May I see the ball please?"

[Donk93953]

Yes, its a trick play.
Taking advantage of the lack of knowledge of the laws by the other hooker.

It's a lineout.

1) Before the lineup forms
2) Ball is in possession and at the mark of team Blue throwing in ball
3) White hooker asks, Blue hooker to see the ball.
4) Blue hands the ball to White
5) White takes off up the field

Is it legal for White to do this?
Our last game the ref called a technical foul on White.

Yes, I know the law says it must be thrown five, but what about advantage?

If Blue throws ball into lineout and it doesn't travel five and White catches it...don't you play on under the advantage rule?
If Blue throws ball into lineout and it goes directly to White...don't you play advantage?
If Blue kicks the ball at a restart after a try, and it doesn't travel ten, White can play the ball under the advantage rule.

Educate me....

Donk93953

 

[crossref]

:smile: is it your idea, Donk?

Surely no ref would ever allow it?

For me : no throw has taken place - the ball has not been brought back into play, peep come back here and let's have a line out.
White hooker? Nice try ... but no cigar.

If the ref has no sense of humour he could YC white for deliberately handling the ball to prevent a quick throw.

Another optin is FK white for blocking a QTI
[LAWS]At a quick throw-in, a player must not prevent the ball being thrown in 5 metres.
Sanction: Free Kick on 15-metre line[/LAWS]

 

[Donk93953]

But the ball has been brought into play.

It has entered the pitch from the hands of Blue thrower in-touch, into the hands of White receiver who is standing in the field of play.

 

[OB..]

[LAWS]19.10 (h) [FONT=fs_blakeregular]Blocking the throw-in. [/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular][/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]A lineout player must not stand less than 5 metres from the touchline. A lineout player must not prevent the ball being thrown in 5 metres.
[/FONT]Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line[/LAWS]

 

[Donk93953]

you seem to have forgotten the White hooker...2 X 2

 

[crossref]

Donk - how many times have you tried it, and has any referee let you get away with it?

In my mind the decision the ref has to make whether you never really expected to get away with it at all --- and this is no more than an elaborate way to prevent a Quick Throw In ? If so it's cynical and a FK or PK or even a YC depending on the circs.

Or is is just a Baldrick-like cunning plan? In which case smile and we'll have a line out and white captain? let's just play rugby.

 

[Donk93953]

"Donk - how many times have you tried it, and has any referee let you get away with it?"

Used it for years. Penalized once.
It was taught to me while I attended and played at St John's at Cambridge.
Its not a method of stopping a quick throw.
Its a method of getting the ball by taking advantage of the other player's ignorance of the laws.
That is something that happens daily in rugby.

 

[didds]

except of course it isn't about ignorance of the laws.

Its taking the piss.

I'm amazed you ever survived the next three rucks you were caught in.

didds

 

[Na Madrai]

Ahh, Didds, those were the (bad old ) days .........

NM

 

[Andrew1974]

I'm amazed you ever survived the next three rucks you were caught in.

I would have thought it would only take one!!!

 

[Pegleg]

This is nonsense. Take the throw again and stop messing about.

1. Ball has not travelled 5.
2. Defending hooker is not 2x2.
3. It's plain daft.
4. Any ref who allows it would get a talking to from his Assessor.

 

[chbg]

If Blue throws ball into lineout and it doesn't travel five and White catches it...don't you play on under the advantage rule?
Educate me....

No. White prevented it going 5m and so is penalisable. If White e.g. knocked on in that situation (less than 5m from Touch) I would play a possible Advantage to Blue.

The lack of knowledge of the Laws is on the other foot!

 

[Dickie E]

You know that feeling where you're itching to join in a discussion but ... just can't be arsed?

 

[didds]

.. and you're late already Dickie ;-)

didds

 

[The Fat]

I would love to hear the response would be from some of the hookers in my local competition if the rival hooker asked them to show him the ball��
Poor work from any referee who has let the Op get away with the ploy and demonstrates a basic lack of law knowledge

 

[crossref]

this thread did make me think of an alternative scenario -

ball in touch, red 15 retrieves it and is standing on touchline looking for possible quick throw in....
.. no line out is formed and the QTI is on..
.. but red 15 decides against it, and drops the ball at his feet (as they do) and the ball lands in the field of play, and bounces 1m infield
.. quick thinking blue player nips in and picks up the ball and hares off.

Anyone tempted to consider that that would constitute a quick throw in, which didn't go 5m, but play advantage to blue?

 

[FlipFlop]

Had a situation the other week, PK to white. Blue are back 10m.

White player (possibly going to kick for corner, possibly to decide to kick for posts) walks up to the mark dribbling the ball soccer style. I saw a Blue player start to encroach, and look at me. I called play on. He had clearly kicked the ball through the mark (but he didn't realise what he was doing).

Luckily for white kicker, his team mate was more switched on, and got the ball before Blue defenders did.

There was not a single complaint from either side. The kicker carried the ball in his hands at all later PKs.....

 

[crossref]

Had a situation the other week, PK to white. Blue are back 10m.

White player (possibly going to kick for corner, possibly to decide to kick for posts) walks up to the mark dribbling the ball soccer style. I saw a Blue player start to encroach, and look at me. I called play on. He had clearly kicked the ball through the mark (but he didn't realise what he was doing).

Luckily for white kicker, his team mate was more switched on, and got the ball before Blue defenders did.

There was not a single complaint from either side. The kicker carried the ball in his hands at all later PKs.....

I agree with your actions here - this could easily be done as ploy.....

 

[didds]

Anyone tempted to consider that that would constitute a quick throw in, which didn't go 5m, but play advantage to blue?

I bloody hope not!

didds

 

[Dickie E]

Had a situation the other week, PK to white. Blue are back 10m.

White player (possibly going to kick for corner, possibly to decide to kick for posts) walks up to the mark dribbling the ball soccer style. I saw a Blue player start to encroach, and look at me. I called play on. He had clearly kicked the ball through the mark (but he didn't realise what he was doing).

Luckily for white kicker, his team mate was more switched on, and got the ball before Blue defenders did.

There was not a single complaint from either side. The kicker carried the ball in his hands at all later PKs.....

What would you have done if the dribbling was 5 metres directly behind the mark? Call play on? If not, why not?