[Tackle] Open play, non-maul

[irishref]

So in my game Saturday:

Open play, Red pass to a big second row in the middle of the pitch, and he's immediately joined by 3 teammates in a would-be maul formation. Ball at the front in the hands of the second row.

Blue decide to not make any contact at all, Red trundle on 10m or so.

Blue 10 then comes round the back and tackles the hindmost player.

Your call?

 

[Decorily]

So in my game Saturday:

Open play, Red pass to a big second row in the middle of the pitch, and he's immediately joined by 3 teammates in a would-be maul formation. Ball at the front in the hands of the second row.

Blue decide to not make any contact at all, Red trundle on 10m or so.

Blue 10 then comes round the back and tackles the hindmost player.

Your call?

So Blue 10 ' tackles' a player without the ball...is that correct?

 

[crossref]

Is this a rarely seen, illegal, flying wedge ?

 

[Decorily]

Is this a rarely seen, illegal, flying wedge ?

No..I don't believe it is.

 

[Rich_NL]

It sounds like a flying wedge, penalty to blue.

If red players are not bound, tackling off the ball by blue, penalty to red (managing for materiality and flashpoints etc)

 

[didds]

cue 300 post debate about what is or is not a flying wedge and what it was historically and where on the pitch it happens etc etc etc (CF the previous 200 similar threads).

didds

 

[crossref]

If it's not a FW then I guess the only legal action open to blue is to tackle the ball carrier (ooomph)

 

[didds]

I suppose there is always the option to blow the whistle, say it just looks dangerous and award red the scrum (going forwards/in possession eat the time etc). IF you didnt want to go down the FW/dangerous play PK route.

Safety - Enjoyment - Law.

 

[didds]

@Irishref... purely out of interest is there any way to raise a query in your society to see if anybody else has come across this tactic from Red before? ie is it a standard ploy they use constantly.

didds

 

[irishref]

@Irishref... purely out of interest is there any way to raise a query in your society to see if anybody else has come across this tactic from Red before? ie is it a standard ploy they use constantly.

didds

We have a society workshop on Dec 15th, I'll certainly throw it in the group.

 

[irishref]

A flying wedge is only applicable when a penalty or free kick is awarded.

It doesn't cover open play.

I have to say this is the first time I've ever seen this happen on a pitch.

 

[crossref]

the definition in the Law book says "usually" , not "only"

 

[Marc Wakeham]

So in my game Saturday:

Open play, Red pass to a big second row in the middle of the pitch, and he's immediately joined by 3 teammates in a would-be maul formation. Ball at the front in the hands of the second row.

Blue decide to not make any contact at all, Red trundle on 10m or so.

Blue 10 then comes round the back and tackles the hindmost player.

Your call?

Where is the ball? At the front (could be construde a Flying wedge) or back (obstrution) of the formation? is the "tackle" on the ball carrier or not (if the latter that is illegal)? We need more information.

Taking the missing information into account, I ask red to pass the ball away if beign held at the back (CF line out situation). If held at the front I be warning about as FW and again asking that the ball is moved away (that might change if i could see exactly whay you had.

I' then discuss it at a society meeting for confirmation of my actions.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Would you allow one teammate to bind to BC before contact?

Showbiz refs seem to let this go. SA (still) do it quite often.

 

[didds]

Where is the ball? At the front (could be construde a Flying wedge) or back (obstrution) of the formation? is the "tackle" on the ball carrier or not (if the latter that is illegal)? We need more information.

Taking the missing information into account, I ask red to pass the ball away if beign held at the back (CF line out situation). If held at the front I be warning about as FW and again asking that the ball is moved away (that might change if i could see exactly whay you had.

I' then discuss it at a society meeting for confirmation of my actions.

Irishref said in his OP

"Ball at the front in the hands of the second row."

didds

 

[Jz558]

Only in rugby law lalaland can something that looks like a duck and quacks not actually be a duck. The formation described in the OP is a flying wedge which had it occurred from a penalty or free-kick would be illegal. Because it happened in open play it doesn't meet the definition. All that the ref can do currently (if they have ruled out dangerous play) is penalise the defender who tackled the hindmost man who wasn't the ball carrier.

 

[didds]

Would you allow one teammate to bind to BC before contact?

Showbiz refs seem to let this go. SA (still) do it quite often.

Out in interest is this now illegal ? I was doing this 20 years (and longer) ago and never pinged??

didds

 

[didds]

Only in rugby law lalaland can something that looks like a duck and quacks not actually be a duck. The formation described in the OP is a flying wedge which had it occurred from a penalty or free-kick would be illegal. Because it happened in open play it doesn't meet the definition. All that the ref can do currently (if they have ruled out dangerous play) is penalise the defender who tackled the hindmost man who wasn't the ball carrier.

well its either dangerous play (general PK) or its not.

Or my other solution earlier - blow to stop the game, explain you could spot something dangerous but not illegal developing, and award a scrum to the team carrying the ball. And remind everybody that it cant be used *cough*

didds

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Out in interest is this now illegal ? I was doing this 20 years (and longer) ago and never pinged??

didds

Not in the world of Jerome Garces. Kitsoff and Etzebeth did it at least once in the RWC Final or Semi.

 

[Jz558]

well its either dangerous play (general PK) or its not.

Or my other solution earlier - blow to stop the game, explain you could spot something dangerous but not illegal developing, and award a scrum to the team carrying the ball. And remind everybody that it cant be used *cough*

didds

As we've seen before dangerous play isn't a universal standard. For what it's worth I would in this instance award the penalty for the tackle on the non-ball carrier and then speak to the Red Captain and tell him if they try that tactic again I'm pretty sure I would be able to find something dangerous about it.