Options for the player not throwing-in during the line-out

[vidiego]

I was reading the laws of the game and I can’t find if in the line-out the player not throwing-in (the immediate opponent of the player throwing-in) can lift a player who is part of the line-out (who is between the 5 m and 15 m dash line). The closest that I can find is 19.11, but it is talking about the player throwing-in:
19.11 PLAYER THROWING-INThere are four options available to the player throwing in
a) The thrower may stay within 5 metres of the touchline.
b) The thrower may retire to the offside line 10 metres behind the line of touch.
c) The thrower may join the lineout as soon as the ball has been thrown in.
d) The thrower may move into the receiver position if that position is empty.

If the thrower goes anywhere else, the thrower is offside.

Sanction: Penalty kick on the 15-metre line

Any help?

 

[damo]

I believe he has the same options as the player throwing in, but I have looked in the lawbook for a reference and cannot find one. Just go with that for now.

 

[OB..]

I was reading the laws of the game and I can’t find if in the line-out the player not throwing-in (the immediate opponent of the player throwing-in) can lift a player who is part of the line-out (who is between the 5 m and 15 m dash line). The closest that I can find is 19.11, but it is talking about the player throwing-in:
19.11 PLAYER THROWING-INThere are four options available to the player throwing in
a) The thrower may stay within 5 metres of the touchline.
b) The thrower may retire to the offside line 10 metres behind the line of touch.
c) The thrower may join the lineout as soon as the ball has been thrown in.
d) The thrower may move into the receiver position if that position is empty.

If the thrower goes anywhere else, the thrower is offside.

Sanction: Penalty kick on the 15-metre line

Any help?

Law 19.8 (j) says he must be 2 metres from the 5 metre line, and there is a helpful picture.

He would need very long arms to lift a player!

 

[Simon Thomas]

the 2m distance was brought in to stop exactly that - being a lift support at the front

 

[FlipFlop]

The non-thrower must be 2m from the line of touch, and 2m from the 5m line (approx). And once the ball is thrown, has the same options as the thrower (that you list above).

Basis in law? No idea is it is, but this is how it is reffed and managed everywhere!

 

[Rushforth]

Right there in the first picture http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?law=19.8

OB, anyone, when was this introduced? Can't find it in (RFU) LAWS of the GAME 1995/96, law 23B.

 

[OB..]

Right there in the first picture http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?law=19.8

OB, anyone, when was this introduced? Can't find it in (RFU) LAWS of the GAME 1995/96, law 23B.

2009.

 

[smeagol]

Is there not a direct contradiction?

I have always enforced 19.8(j), which says that they must have a player. Not necessarily the opposing hooker, but a player.

Yesterday, a fellow referee criticized me for pinging this, as he said that in 7s and 15s, that having a player in that 2m box is not a requirement.

 

[Rushforth]

Is there not a direct contradiction?

I have always enforced 19.8(j), which says that they must have a player. Not necessarily the opposing hooker, but a player.

Yesterday, a fellow referee criticized me for pinging this, as he said that in 7s and 15s, that having a player in that 2m box is not a requirement.

I politely remind 15s teams of their obligation (and right) to have a defender in the middle of the 5m channel, far enough towards their own dead-ball line that they cannot interfere with the ball travelling 5m. I'm not sure if I've ever given a free kick under 19.8(j).

In 7s, it is IMHO mandatory to ping if the first instruction is ignored. The additional defender out wide becomes an unfair advantage which simply is not the case in 15 aside.

 

[Phil E]

Yesterday, a fellow referee criticized me for pinging this, as he said that in 7s and 15s, that having a player in that 2m box is not a requirement.

Ask that fellow referee how he balances his argument against law 19.8(j), which contains the word "must" not once, but twice. That is pretty definitive!

[LAWS]
Law 19.8
(j) Player between touch and 5 metres. The team not throwing in must have a player standing between the touchline and the 5-metre line on that team’s side of the line of touch when the lineout is formed. That player must stand 2 metres from the line of touch and 2 metres from the 5-metre line.
Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line
[/LAWS]

 

[smeagol]

I politely remind 15s teams of their obligation (and right) to have a defender in the middle of the 5m channel, far enough towards their own dead-ball line that they cannot interfere with the ball travelling 5m. I'm not sure if I've ever given a free kick under 19.8(j).

In 7s, it is IMHO mandatory to ping if the first instruction is ignored. The additional defender out wide becomes an unfair advantage which simply is not the case in 15 aside.

I made the point about the additional defender, and asked him for a law reference. I'll follow up next week.

I've had coaches argue this with me, but never expected it from a man in the middle.

 

[vidiego]

“Law 19.8 (j) says he must be 2 metres from the 5 metre line, and there is a helpful picture”I was assuming that he must be 2 m from the 5 m line and that he can move as soon as the ball leaves the hands of the player throwing-in (always between the 5 m and the touch-line)

 

[Davet]

If we allow that - on grounds of common sense and fair play that the regs applying to the Thrower also apply to his "immediate opponent"

19.11 PLAYER THROWING-IN
There are four options available to the player throwing in
a) The thrower may stay within 5 metres of the touchline.
b) The thrower may retire to the offside line 10 metres behind the line of touch.
c) The thrower may join the lineout as soon as the ball has been thrown in.
d) The thrower may move into the receiver position if that position is empty.

But he'd have to move damned fast across the 2.5m distance that he must be from his front line out player to get to him and be able to support/lift him in the time between the ball leaving the throwers hands and it reaching a point above that front player. I really don't see it being legally possible.

 

[Taff]

I believe he has the same options as the player throwing in, but I have looked in the lawbook for a reference and cannot find one. Just go with that for now.

The only problem I have with that is that the man throwing in can run to the general 10m offside line as soon as he's chucked it. Surely his opponent can't do that as that would be leaving the LO early. :chin:

 

[Dixie]

Surely his opponent can't do that as that would be leaving the LO early. :chin:

This is also true for the thrower. He is a participating player, just like his immediate opponent. Sauce for the goose must also be sauce for the gander, otherwise the key element of a balanced contest is compromised.

Point to note: the lineout takes place between the 5m and 15m lines. It starts when the ball is thrown in, at which point the thrower's oppo is REQUIRED not to be in the lineout. How can we then ping him for leaving it early?

 

[Davet]

Surely his opponent can't do that as that would be leaving the LO early

The thrower and his immediate opponent are both defined as "Participating Players"

Since they are defined as the same category, and the Law then defines what a Thrower can do, then surely his immediate opponent is entitled to the same allowances. If the Law allows the Thrower to do soemthinbg then that must also be available to his immediate opponent.

In any event - since the TIO is in the channel he has already left the Lineout.... in as far as that term applies to Lineout Players, who can only enter the channel after the ball has passed over them.

 

[Dixie]

Wow - Davet and Dixie simultaneously post exactly the same thought! Has anyone ever seen them in the same room?

 

[Davet]

Suspicions of Jekyll and Hyde...

I need you to keep drinking the potion, Dixie.