Orange Card

[Camquin]

BBC are talking about an Orange Card for TV rugby, where there is doubt over a Red, on field referee sends the player off and then a second TMO reviews the decision during the ten minutes and decides if it needs to be upgraded.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65253745

What does the team think?

Personally, I am not sure why it needs to be a separate card from yellow? There are not a lot of yellows, and most are clearly not red, so can be reviewed quickly.
Anything to let the game flow and keep the stoppage time down seems sensible to me.
After all, very few of us will ever have the luxury.

 

[RemainingInTheGame]

BBC are talking about an Orange Card for TV rugby, where there is doubt over a Red, on field referee sends the player off and then a second TMO reviews the decision during the ten minutes and decides if it needs to be upgraded.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65253745

What does the team think?

Personally, I am not sure why it needs to be a separate card from yellow? There are not a lot of yellows, and most are clearly not red, so can be reviewed quickly.
Anything to let the game flow and keep the stoppage time down seems sensible to me.
After all, very few of us will ever have the luxury.

Super Rugby Pacific have a similar system:

Referee can choose Red or Yellow card on the field.

Red card is a send off, with no replacement.

Yellow card is checked by the TMO, and the TMO decides if
1) The player can return after 10 minutes ('yellow card'), or
2) Decides that the player should not return, where a replacement player can be returned to the field after 20min from the original card (confusingly also called a 'red card' or 'upgrade to red').

It has made the games faster, with less time for the referees to check video evidence... BUT.. last week (REDs v ACT) was there was a few moments with the on field ref deciding if they should go straight to red or to yellow and TMO check - and I'd worry that soon this decision could take as long as previous iterations... because a red card with no replacement early in the game has a large impact compared to 20min, so the referee will want to be sure they are making the right decision.

I actually prefer the system mentioned in the article, where it's either 10min off, or sent off for rest of game - the 20min thing makes it needlessly complicated (IMHO).

 

[SimonSmith]

It has made the games faster, with less time for the referees to check video evidence... BUT.. last week (REDs v ACT) was there was a few moments with the on field ref deciding if they should go straight to red or to yellow and TMO check - and I'd worry that soon this decision could take as long as previous iterations... because a red card with no replacement early in the game has a large impact compared to 20min, so the referee will want to be sure they are making the right decision.

Is that the one with the ridiculous head contact by Angus Blyth that was only a yellow in real time. [Just checked. No, it was the Brumbies]

The problem with the system is that some referees will use it as a cop-out and leave the TMO to make the decision. I'm also philosophically opposed to 20 minutes down. If it's worth a red card, it's worth a red card and being a man down for the rest of the game.
Don't want to get sent off and/or ruin the game as a spectacle? Don't commit acts of foul play.

 

[Dickie E]

The problem with the system is that some referees will use it as a cop-out and leave the TMO to make the decision.

Don't consider it a cop-out. Consider it separation of duties. A specialist TMO has the luxury of reviewing the incident in slo-mo from many different angles for 10 minutes. Leaves the ref to get on with running the game.

 

[crossref]

.
Don't want to get sent off and/or ruin the game as a spectacle? Don't commit acts of foul play.

Plenty incidents where players with absolutely no intention of committing foul play have (correctly) received a RC

 

[crossref]

I think we need three cards

YC as now
OC recipient excluded and cited, replacement after 20m
RC recipient excluded and cited, no replacement

Referee makes swift decision and we get on with the game.

All YC and OC reviewed by TMO and could be upgraded one level

 

[Dickie E]

All YC and OC reviewed by TMO and could be upgraded one level

I think a YC should also be upgradable by two levels if appropriate.

Could OC & RC also be reviewed and downgraded?

 

[didds]

The problem with the system is that some referees will use it as a cop-out and leave the TMO to make the decision.

This is exactly my first thought.

All ref cards will be yellow, and the TMO will decide within the 10 minute window.

Im however split over whether that is good or bad!

 

[Dickie E]

This is exactly my first thought.

All ref cards will be yellow, and the TMO will decide within the 10 minute window.

Im however split over whether that is good or bad!

I can't see any downside. Player is off, game continues, decision made remotely. It's a bit like cricket's DRS ... let the bloke with the technology & time make the decision. Also overcomes that awkwardness of ref & ARs squinting at the big screen trying to understand what the English-challlenged TMO is saying

 

[didds]

pretty much my thoughts Dickie.

 

[Dickie E]

anyone remember the white card?:

A look at the first ever White Card in Super Rugby | Rugbydump

There's been a fair bit of confusion since the introduction of the new White Card in Super Rugby. Last weekend we saw one issued for a tip-tackle, so here's a quick look at that, as well as an explanation of how the process works.

www.rugbydump.com

The white card - Lyndon Bray assesses its effect during the 2013 Super Rugby season

super.rugby

 

[SimonSmith]

Don't consider it a cop-out. Consider it separation of duties. A specialist TMO has the luxury of reviewing the incident in slo-mo from many different angles for 10 minutes. Leaves the ref to get on with running the game.

If the red meant permanently a man down, I'd agree. But it doesn't.

The Blyth red card was nailed on. My first reaction seeing it live was "he's walking". How the referee saw it otherwise is beyond me.

 

[SimonSmith]

Plenty incidents where players with absolutely no intention of committing foul play have (correctly) received a RC

If your action was bad enough to warrant a red, why does intent matter?

 

[SimonSmith]

I can't see any downside. Player is off, game continues, decision made remotely. It's a bit like cricket's DRS ... let the bloke with the technology & time make the decision. Also overcomes that awkwardness of ref & ARs squinting at the big screen trying to understand what the English-challlenged TMO is saying

Well, with DRS, the game is actually paused for the decision making.

Want it smoother? Get a pitch side monitor in HD.

 

[Dickie E]

Well, with DRS, the game is actually paused for the decision making.

Want it smoother? Get a pitch side monitor in HD.

indeed but with rugby the offield decision making would happen while play continues. Beautiful in its simplicity

 

[menace]

Orange - tick.

Now just to find use for the purple and green cards and rainbow is sorted (probably don't need the black). ( Does a card rolodex fit in a pocket?)

 

[crossref]

If your action was bad enough to warrant a red, why does intent matter?

It means that RC are now unavoidable.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

One more step to two totally different games. Community and pro. But it does not stop there. Not all games in the same competition will have TMOs so one week we will have letest ay Leinster V Ulster and the Orange card is "in play" so Player commits a "Orangy Red" offence and it is reviewd an he gets to play on. Next week his is playing in Zebra Vs Leinster and for "EXACTLY" the same offence he gets a red card. Total lack of consistency abounds. We already have it with a BP try denied or given by the TMO one week but given or denied by a lone To3 the next.

This is only remotely workable if ALL games in a particular competition are played WITH a TMO and full review facilities available in every game.

Meanwhile in the community we will get on with our daft form of the game complete with Red and yellow cards, ref making calls in real time and quickly, oh and proper scrums to boot.

Sorry this is a part of the smoke and mirrors being used by WR to cover up the shortcomings in the game.

 

[crossref]

.

This is only remotely workable if ALL games in a particular competition are played WITH a TMO and full review facilities available in every game.

.

That is the case isn't it

 

[didds]

That is the case isn't it

TBH I assumed it was.

If it isn't - then (in line with Marc's post) - its ridiculous.