Ospreys - Scarlets - ball falls over in run up to kick...

[PeterH]

I have had 2 texts on this from mates...
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Biggar had the chance to put the Ospreys into the lead with a 43-metre penalty in the third minute after the Scarlets were penalised for infringing offside following a chip from rookie scrum-half Tavis Knoyle.

But the ball rolled off the kicking tee during his run-up and French referee Christophe Berdos controversially waved play-on. Biggar picked it up and fired a snap drop-goal but it went wide.
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I told them he was bob-on - the kicker had started the run - that was the crucial bit

I didnt know the law reference til I looked it up..
Found this for a conversion - what is it for a penalty??

9.B.2
(c) If the ball falls over before the kicker begins the approach to kick, the referee permits the kicker to replace it without excessive delay. While the ball is replaced, the opponents must stay behind their goal line.
If the ball falls over after the kicker begins the approach to kick, the kicker may then kick or attempt a dropped goal.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Penalty - once tee arrives you have one minute to take the kick - oppo cannot charge. At any stage in that minute you can re-tee ball etc without asking ref. Perhaps the minute was almost , so no time to re-tee and so a quick drop attempt was only option ?

Conversion is very different - same re tee arrival and one minute but if it falls over you have to ask referee to re-tee the ball. And once offered to kick oppo can charge you on a conversion.

 

[Taff]

I saw it, but was it a PK or a conversion attempt? IIRC the Scarlets charged it - and they can't charge a PK.

21.7 WHAT THE OPPOSING TEAM MUST DO AT A PENALTY KICK
(d) Interference. The opposing team must not do anything to delay the penalty kick or obstruct the kicker. They must not intentionally take, throw or kick the ball out of reach of the kicker or the kicker’s team mates.

I can't check it as I deleted the recording to make room for this mornings Super 14 games. :sad:

 

[Adam]

Penalty - once tee arrives you have one minute to take the kick - oppo cannot charge. At any stage in that minute you can re-tee ball etc without asking ref. Perhaps the minute was almost , so no time to re-tee and so a quick drop attempt was only option ?

Conversion is very different - same re tee arrival and one minute but if it falls over you have to ask referee to re-tee the ball. And once offered to kick oppo can charge you on a conversion.

That includes re-teeing the ball after you have started your run up for a PK?

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Saw this myself and it looked wrong.
Accepting that the 1 minute was up which invariably it is at the top level, could the kicker have taped and gone or would the only option now open to the ref if he didn't drop kick for goal is Scrum defence.

 

[triage]

for those that haven't seen it http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00rwp7k/Scrum_V_Live_2009_2010_Ospreys_v_Scarlets/ 10 mins 40 seconds into the program.
IMO awful decision to allow them to charge him and incorrect to force the drop kick....it was a penalty kick by the way.

 

[Account Deleted]

Error by the ref.

 

[OB..]

The kick at goal was signalled at 10:09. The ball fell off the tee at 11:02. There was technically no time for him to re-do his place-kicking routine.

However the opponents are not allowed to move until he actually kicks the ball.

 

[triage]

The kick at goal was signalled at 10:09. The ball fell off the tee at 11:02. There was technically no time for him to re-do his place-kicking routine.

if that is the case should he not have blown for a scrum?

O.K. that would have been harsh perhaps but the fact that the guys charged (as you stated) would you have stopped and said something along the lines of "no charging you lot and you be quick about the re teeing" just in the interests of the game? or would you have gone along the lines of the video above or something different?

 

[didds]

Error by the ref.

+ 1.

Even if time was up.... it didn't allow a charge by the oppo while he was just stood there.

didds

 

[OB..]

if that is the case should he not have blown for a scrum?

O.K. that would have been harsh perhaps but the fact that the guys charged (as you stated) would you have stopped and said something along the lines of "no charging you lot and you be quick about the re teeing" just in the interests of the game? or would you have gone along the lines of the video above or something different?

There was time for a drop kick attempt.

I don't know how carefully the referees monitor the 1 minute time limit, but I cannot recall a kick being disallowed because of it.

Curiously, Law 21.5 (c) restricts the opponents, but provides no explicit sanction. I presume you have to apply that following 21.7 ie advance the penalty 10m.

If the drop kick had gone over, it would have counted.

If the ball falls off and player asks the the ref if there is time to re-tee it, my answer would as usual be to tell him how long is left.