Owens to referee Wales

[Marc Wakeham]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49582296

 

[crossref]

Well it's a showbiz game, isn't it ?
Like reffing the President's XV at your home club
Good luck to him

 

[buff]

Will it be his last game at the top?

 

[beckett50]

Will it be his last game at the top?

No, as he is on the panel of referees for the RWC

 

[didds]

Other than a FYI its a bit of non-news really innit?

didds

 

[Ian_Cook]

Who the hell writes this rubbish?

"Owens' appointment is unique in the professional era of rugby union, when neutral referees take control of Test matches."

Wales v Barbarians is NOT a test match.

 

[L'irlandais]

Some countries award caps for games between their full national team and an invitation team like the Barbarians. Not sure that it applies to Wales, but if a cap was awarded that would qualify it as a test match, even though it’s not a match between two Nations. WR regulations, don’t define “test match” under definitions.

It does define International match, but that’s a different story.
[LAWS]International Match means any match played between National Representative Teams selected by Unions whether at 15-a-side or an abbreviated version of the Game.[/LAWS]

 

[Ian_Cook]

It ain't a test match if there are no Ranking points up for grabs, and in any case, the Barbarians is a club side, not a national representative team.

The rugby, a "test" match and an "international"match are the same thing

 

[L'irlandais]

As I said in my earlier post, World Rugby don’t have a definition for “test match” so difficult to say if it is the same as their definition of International match, or not. Ranking points is a new concept, introduced in August 2003. So the majority of tests matches played in the history of the game happened before the advent of ranking points, does that mean they were in fact, not test matches? Wales have previously awarded caps for matches against the Barbarians, that makes it a test match, even though it doesn’t meet WR’s definition of an International match, ie a match between two National sides.

The [2011] match has been organised to commemorate the 130th anniversary of the formation of the WRU as the governing body of the union game in Wales. Caps have been awarded by Wales twice before in games against the Barbarians, first in the Baa Baas' centenary celebration match in 1990 and again in 1996.

You don’t have to agree if you don’t want to. This is NOT cricket.

After RWC 2019, a global rugby season is supposedly going to change the game for the better. Perhaps this is the right time to look at the question of test rugby more closely.

 

[crossref]

So it seems that there was no WR rule preventing NO from reffing it...
Sounds like WRU simply asked WR to appoint him. The rest is puff

It's just like a club phoning the society and saying .. our game next week is the annual Presidents friendly, 100th anniversary please can you appoint good old crossref to that one .. he's not the best ref in the world, but the crowd like to be amused and he can hold his own in a boat race.

 

[L'irlandais]

Statsguru, ESPN scrum.com list over 3000 International matches since 1871. How many of those should be considered test matches is open to debate.

What constitutes a Test match?
In rugby union it is a game where ONE country awards full test caps for its players, not like cricket when both sides must award caps for it to count.
Also, one country may even award caps when the opponents are not even a country (as with Wales against the Barbarians in 1990 and 1996, or even when countries play against another country's second teams or age group sides.
For the purposes of completeness games involving the British and Irish Lions (and their forerunners) and the Pacific Islanders have been included, although are not strictly official caps as the games were not for a single country but a combined team.
Stuart Farmer, SFMS

The idea that the matches are a "test of strength and competency" between the sides involved, means Top 10 Nations should not get a cap for putting 80 points on a minor rugby nation. The minnows get far less games every year and are no test for the major sides.

 

[L'irlandais]

One example, local to France, might be the case of Monaco. They have won 9 caps since the introduction of the ranking points system, prior to RWc 2003. These days they prefer to compete in Fedérale 3. I am surprised they still figure on the WR rankings.

[LAWS]Their rating may be deemed to be 'dormant', in which case they will be removed from current ranking lists. However, when they are active again they will pick up their rating from where they left off.[/LAWS]
Apparently teams that haven’t played an International test match in the past couple of years should no longer figure in the current rankings. I wonder how many other “International teams” listed on the WR rankings don’t meet this requirement?

Rwanda who have 3 caps since September 2003. Two at their International debut and a further one in 2010.
(They appear to have changed codes in the meanwhile.) Rwanda Silverbacks are an amateur sports team, how could they compare to the likes of New Zealand in a test match?
We need to compare like with like. I don’t think half the National sides on the WR rankings have tested their strength and competence against another National squad in some while. It’d be interesting to see WR stats used for compiling the current rankings.

 

[buff]

No, as he is on the panel of referees for the RWC

This game is after the RWC.

 

[L'irlandais]

This game is after the RWC.

Spot on

Welshman Nigel Owens will referee a Wales game for the first time when they host Barbarians on 30 November.

I notice that Sweden (46 points) who are 50th in the WR rankings only played a couple of matches in 2019 and a couple last year. (4 in 12 moths) While Thailand (36 points) in 75th place played 6 games in the last 12 months. The rankings penalize teams for going out and representing their country; playing more games puts you at the risk of losing more points.

 

[OB..]

It’d be interesting to see WR stats used for compiling the current rankings.

There is an unofficial alternative ranking system, World Rugby Rankings, which lists all the matches it takes into account http://wrr.live555.com/results.txt

 

[L'irlandais]

Ok I will have a look. I am convinced some teams haven’t had a test match in the last 12 months, surely they should be trimmed from the rankings. New Zealand had 10 International matches so far in 2019. That stretches to 21 tests over the last 12 months. It would most likely be dangerous for any of 95th to 105th of WR rankings to line out against a Top 10 team.

 

[didds]

It would most likely be dangerous for any of 95th to 105th of WR rankings to line out against a Top 10 team.

even within the potentials of RWC qualification, whilst I agree entirely, would that likely ever happen?

095 NORWAY
096 RWANDA
097 COSTA RICA
098 NIUE ISLAND
099 CAMEROON
100 SOLOMON ISLANDS
101 MONACO
102 GREECE
103 INDONESIA
104 VANUATU
105 AMERICAN SAMOA

To even get to a RWC though qualification etc they presumably would have to beat the might of the likes of

50 SWEDEN
51 TRINIDAD & TOBAGO
52 MADAGASCAR
53 COOK ISLANDS
54 SENEGAL
55 MOLDOVA
56 SINGAPORE
57 LATVIA
58 CAYMAN ISLANDS
59 LUXEMBOURG
60 GUYANA




I just don't see it happening - outside of our RR chats of course

didds

 

[L'irlandais]

Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I don’t envisage it ever happening. My point is the list of 105 International teams currently ranked is a farce. This number is misleading. Using the WR results per team mechanic, we can see which teams have had no matches in the last 12 months.

As for Top 10 teams meeting minnows, this happens once every 4 years. If you accept that this years hosts, currently at 10th in the rankings haven’t got an outside chance of winning the RWC 2019, then it goes without saying the other ten teams are only there to make up the numbers. We will over the 7 weeks, see more than one trouncing. So a list that includes International squads formed from mostly Professional players should be separate from those squads formed mostly from amateurs.

 

[didds]

All very reasoinable comments ? Though on the whole the troucnings dont seem these days to be as bad as 20 years ago maybe... 100 poiunt wins dont seem to be the norm against the minnows in each group, and on a bad day almost all teams are suceptible to a 30+ point loss.

B8ut the overall point L'irlandais makes is correct IMO

 

[The umpire]

Who the hell writes this rubbish?

"Owens' appointment is unique in the professional era of rugby union, when neutral referees take control of Test matches."

Wales v Barbarians is NOT a test match.

It's also not unique, Jim Fleming's final official match was to referee Scotland for their match against the Barbarians at Murrayfield in May 2001.