Parental "advice" to the referee

[Dan Cottrell]

I wonder how much I should engage with the parents in the game when they are questioning my decisions which is in turn affecting the players. As the coach/referee I understand that I can be accused of being bias far more than incompetent. In my heart of hearts I know that I feel I am tougher on my own team than others, but then I haven't been independently assessed for my own team.

From my game on Sunday morning, the opposition coach is fine and talks to me in a calm fashion over issues. His parents are not in the same vein unfortunately. My problem is that in an earlier game this season, one or two of my parents shouted at him (which we were not pleased with at all).

Thoughts?

 

[Chogan]

Did you talk to your parents and set them straight?
Minimal engagement if any would be my advice. You could use a loud voice to explain/coach decisions to players which parents will hear.
You can't account for another clubs culture but if your house is in order you can then talk to the opposition coach about him sorting his parents out.

A talk highlighting the ethos of rugby and respect for the referee can be given to your parents. They'll be on the sideline with you opposition parents and many will talk to each other. While they won't talk to the shouters/abusers your message might seep across.

 

[Dixie]

Dan, spectators as a rule have a bit more licence to be nasty to us than participants in the game - which includes coaches, physios etc. But there are limits, and when the players start to become affected the limit has been breached. At that point, I would speak to the spectator, pointing out that while you are enjoying their banter, it's having a negative effect on the players so could they please keep any thoughts to a volume that the players can't hear. You'll know from the responses you get to that whether you need to take things further. If you get abuse or a refusal to help you, you just go on strike. Tell the home team that the game will recommence when the spectator is out of earshot, and not before.

I'd just counsel you not to justify your decisions loudly on the hoof. "Forward Pass! Are you blind?". "No problem - momentum rule applies. It left the hands backwards." They won't hear properly. If they hear they won't understand. If they understand they won't agree. And the players will expect the same courtesy, and won't understand why you can't give it.

 

[Chogan]

Dixie is right.I'll clarify in saying you should be clear and loud in decision you've made. Don't engage in a running dialogue with the sideline.

 

[TNT88]

edit: I see this is a game where coaches ref the game, will revise input

 

[TheBFG]

go careful with "removing" spectators, if you're on public ground you maybe on dodgy ground, don't go looking for a fight you can't win!

 

[Davet]

Whilst it is difficult to enforce the removal of a specator on a public ground, and whilst i would echo the sentiment that one should only pick fights one can win....

In the end the option offered to the teams is simple - If you want the game to continue then he must be removed.

 

[Phil E]

Dan, the advice we give referees is not to engage directly with spectators, but to make the coaches responsible for their own spectators.
(Obviously as you are the coach, you may need to adapt this slightly)

Put the monkey on someone elses back!
If you feel it is getting beyond light hearted banter, call the coach onto the pitch and ask him to deal with it.
If there is a safeguarding officer present, let him know.
If the banter gets to the point where spectators are shouting "kill him", "maim him", or swearing, F'in and Jeff'in, then a line has been crossed.
Explain that you cannot continue the game until something is done, this could be as simple as the coach having a word with them.

Another possible idea is to speak to the coach on the pitch, but within earshot of the offending people. Loud use of phrases such as "duty of care", "not setting a good example to the players", "hindering not helping", "upsetting the players, who are complaining to you"; all get the message across without putting you at the centre of it.

If its your spectators, at your club, then you can always send them back to the clubhouse.

 

[TNT88]

I wonder how much I should engage with the parents in the game when they are questioning my decisions which is in turn affecting the players.

I'd ignore them. If a player who isn't captain is saying things to you and it disrupts the game, simply penalize and explain later to the coach that the parents were the ones stirring the kids up.

From my game on Sunday morning, the opposition coach is fine and talks to me in a calm fashion over issues. His parents are not in the same vein unfortunately. My problem is that in an earlier game this season, one or two of my parents shouted at him (which we were not pleased with at all).

It is pretty pointless arguing with parents after the game. If you see any of your parents abusing a ref or opposition coach, have a quiet word with the guy after the game and ensure him that they are just emotional and the club will be having a word to those individuals during the week.

If opposition parents accuse you of being bias it's most likely because they are so bias themselves they can't imagine someone actually going out there are reffing the game fairly. So it's best to ignore everything they say, and in some cases these people are so wrong you can pretty much confirm that you made the right call about something if these crazy people disagree with it.

The way I see it. If I finish reffing an U14's game and the usual lunatics aren't itching to jump over the fence and accuse me of personally going down there at 9am to ensure their kid's rugby team doesn't win, then I must have been doing something wrong. I probably didn't make my decisions clear enough for the coaches/crowd to understand.

 

[Davet]

I think there is a balance - in most cases then the crowd will be partisan, and a bit of shouting at the ref is all part of it - but within reason.

It's when it gets beyond that point and begins to affect the game that we need to worry, and to take the sort of actions described above.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Don't be over-sensitive, don't try to be clever, don't be confrontational and don't be over-officious.

Do smile, welcome & exchange banter (if you are a cheeky-chappie personality), and have a quiet word with the parent or club official if necessary when things get too much (pretty rare in my experience).

Do use clear and slow primary and secondary signals to explain decisions.

 

[ddjamo]

okay guys...we are all giving dan advice to handle the symptom. lets address the problem. why were they yelling? what could you have done to make the game better. we use a saying that "they may not know why they are yelling but they sense something is wrong."

if it's totally one sided - like moan any time something doesn't go their way - that's one thing - advice above...but personally I have found the harder I work and the clearer I am with my standard the less unsolicited feedback I got as I progressed.

 

[SimonSmith]

I suspect at Jamo's level , that may be true.

At lower levels, the actual comprehension of the game and the Laws can be lacking in the spectators. Their 'advice' can be driven as much by ignorance as by frustration with the referee.

And if I'm right, isn't Dan C in Wales? And is my memory wrong but isn't Youth rugby in Wales a bit of a bear pit?

 

[ddjamo]

agree SS but...you train refs...don't you agree that as soon as they wrap their mind around "it's me - don't blame anyone else" that a referee can move into a new way of thinking any work on making the game better?

a referee can never please the clipboards - but you can get a fair and fun match out there without the conflict. agreed?

that's the approach I take with our society and it works for the refs that work at it...

 

[Davet]

The problem with age grade rugby, particularly in the UK, is that whilst many parents are ex-players, for some they are very ex... and others have no idea at all, but come from a soccer culture where abusing the ref is an honourable and longstanding pastime.

I agree whiole heartedly with ddjamo that a ref can improve his own game by responding positively to sideline comments - Why are they not seeeing what I see, how can I make it clearer to the players, and thus those who are actually listening - and even perhaps wonder if it is something I am calling poorly - am I clear in my own mind what is happening here...

But at some point you decide the abuse is actually abuse, falling way past partisan barracking, and you are clear that you are calling the game properly... then there is little choice, for your own sake and that of subsequent colleagues, that you try to make it stop.

And this clipboard can generally find plenty to be pleased about; but to tell a ref, "that was great, nothing to say about that game, you were fabulous and did not a put a foot wrong"... is probably indicative of enthusiastic attendence at the pre-game lunch, and a dulling of the critical reflexes; which actually will not help the ref in any way.

 

[Dixie]

But at some point you decide the abuse is actually abuse, falling way past partisan barracking, and you are clear that you are calling the game properly... then there is little choice, for your own sake and that of subsequent colleagues, that you try to make it stop.

And the same is true even if you are clear that your performance is substandard. No-one deliberately refs below his capability, but sometimes we have an off-day. On such days, it's deeply frustrating that the players aren't seeing you at your best - but you are still the ref, and the problem needs dealing with.

 

[OB..]

At a recent match, one of the coaches on the sideline was yelling "Forward pass, ref !! Forward!!!!". Then he turned to me and said "Aren't you going to tell him?"

I merely pointed out that my kit was for listening only. I did not bother to point out that IMHO the pass was not forward.

 

[Davet]

Dixie - yes, and I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise - merely that on occasion I've heard a voice on the touchline saying eg -" Blue back line offside A-****ING-GAIN!! Shit, where do they find these idiots!"; and- very VERY occasionally I realised that actually I've been so busy looking for hands in I haven't really been paying attention to back feet.... I don't think it was my assessor....

As I got more experienced then I stopped looking for stuff, and started seeing stuff.

 

[Blackberry]

At a recent match, one of the coaches on the sideline was yelling "Forward pass, ref !! Forward!!!!". Then he turned to me and said "Aren't you going to tell him?"

I merely pointed out that my kit was for listening only. I did not bother to point out that IMHO the pass was not forward.

In Bucks, Mr. Assessor, the mighty and respected MJ, taught me the useful trick of pointing apologetically towards my earpeice and feigning an inability to hear what the indignant unsportsman like prat is whinging about.

 

[Dead Keen]

As someone who has not had the courage to ref a proper game - with one of the main reasons being the attitude of the crowd - I get really fed up listening to some of the parents, but more often the coaches. One coach "playing" touch judge spent so much of his time shouting at the ref (at a quickly taken penalty - not 10 meters sir, Not 10 Meters Sir, NOT 10 METERS SIIIIR!!!) that it was getting silly. I'd love to know what to say that doesn't get them any more wound up. At one time, I said quietly - "Perhaps he's playing advantage?" it kept him quite for about 30 seconds. Another time he was shouting about offside, and I said, "Oh, does it work like that in general play?" but again it didn't last long. Any thoughts?