Penalty kick to touch

backinmyday

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Hi.
I was just looking for some clarification on the following. When a penalty is awarded and the decision is to kick to touch, is the mark signalled by the ref. where the player starts there run up or where they should kick the ball from?
 
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Decorily

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Hi.
I was just looking for some clarification on the following. When a penalty is awarded and the decision is to kick to touch, is the mark signalled by the ref. Where the player starts there run up or where they should kick the ball from?
Where the kicker should kick from ....but you wouldn't think it to look at the elite game!
 

backinmyday

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Where the kicker should kick from ....but you wouldn't think it to look at the elite game!
Exactly what I was thinking. Not uncommon for the kicker to take 5 or 6 strides before kicking, therefore a decent territorial advantage.
 

menace


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Where the kicker should kick from ....but you wouldn't think it to look at the elite game!
sorry to be pedantic - but "from behind or on" -
the but you're spot on with "but you wouldn't think it to look at the elite game"

In reality even in community level - a step or 2 over the mark is let go but take the p!ss over that and it should be a "from behind the mark next time kicker" (well that's how I manage it).
 

menace


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Wasnt trying to make you sad, Decorily...was more for clarity for backingmyday and perhaps newbies to know it can be any distance behind the mark as ok too.
 

crossref


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one thing to consider is this
A penalty or free-kick is taken from where it is awarded or anywhere behind it on a line through the mark and parallel to the touchlines. When a penalty or free-kick is taken at the wrong place, it must be re-taken.


so if you make them re-take it, then think of the possibilities
- likely the second kick will be immaterially different from the first. So you can look a bit of a jobsworth
- but the second kick could be better than the first, going further, making touch Not really ideal that you improved things for the offending team
- or the second kick could be messed up completely - eg don't find touch. That's not so bad, but maybe you have had too material an impact on the game

- second time round they might quick tap and run. If that happens what are you going to do ?
- similarly what if they decide now to have a scrum or a kick at goal, are you going to let them? if not why not?

So ... there's quite lot of possible downside in making them take it again
 

didds

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i get the point CR is making but then...

- ball in too early at a scrum/lineout, so make them retake it
- now they are PKd
- the oppo win the ball

- tap a PK too early, and called back
- then next time they knock on
- the kick for touch instead

and so on and so forth...

Its not your responsibility/fault .
 

crossref


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I think those are a bit different, though, for one reason or another.
the biggest thing is that when they kick of touch from wrong place there is an outcome.
 

Camquin

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It looks wrong when a ref calls a quick tap back for being in the wrong position, then lets the kicker take a kick from five metres in front.
And of course the hooker will then throw in from in the field of play.

Why not make the mark and as the kicker sets up, stay on the line of the mark and say, "behind my mark please".
That way, they have a chance to retreat before you need to make a decision.
It is also pretty clear if they come in front of you.
 

Volun-selected


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Where the kicker should kick from ....but you wouldn't think it to look at the elite game!
Yes, I think it’s optional at the elite level like feeding the scrum straight, or having thrower having feet outside the fop for lineout, etc. Ok, not exactly material but still a disregard for the laws as written.
 

Rich_NL

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- second time round they might quick tap and run. If that happens what are you going to do ?
- similarly what if they decide now to have a scrum or a kick at goal, are you going to let them? if not why not?

So ... there's quite lot of possible downside in making them take it again

I don't quite get the downside... I wouldn't let them kick for the posts or choose a scrum, as I'm asking them to retake the kick under the option they chose - just like a quick tap and go removes the captain's options of scrum/posts. They can tap and go, or kick for the opposite touchline, or even garryowen/grubber it, though.

This is assuming I've already cautioned/reminded them about it, I think it would look jobsworth-y to do it on a first offence, and the main downside (for me) is that it takes time to get the ball back to the mark and it's a stoppage that's uninteresting to everyone, so try and manage it out. But not at all costs.
 

crossref


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I don't quite get the downside... I wouldn't let them kick for the posts or choose a scrum, as I'm asking them to retake the kick under the option they chose - just like a quick tap and go removes the captain's options of scrum/posts. They can tap and go, or kick for the opposite touchline, or even garryowen/grubber it, though.

this is kinda what I meant about downside

1 - I think that if you bring them back they can choose PK or scrum. (The only choice that is irrevocable is to go for posts).
If you (correctly) let them change the oppo will undoubtedly complain, and feel that you making them retake the PK actually gave them an advantage, if you don't let them change they will complain (and be right)

2 - let's say they kick for touch in front of the mark. The oppo relax and move to toward touch. you make them re-take the PK and now - noticing that the oppo are not well lined up and/or paying attention, they tap and pass in the other direction and score in the corner. You will be sad that this happened and I can guarantee the oppo will be furious.

I see a lot of possible downside ! :)
 

chbg


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Neither are your fault.
 

Rich_NL

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1 - I think that if you bring them back they can choose PK or scrum. (The only choice that is irrevocable is to go for posts).
If you (correctly) let them change the oppo will undoubtedly complain, and feel that you making them retake the PK actually gave them an advantage, if you don't let them change they will complain (and be right)

So if they choose a scrum option and you have to reset the scrum, you'll allow them to change their mind and take the tap and go?

The option has been chosen, they have to carry it out properly is all.
 

Dickie E


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I think those are a bit different, though, for one reason or another.
the biggest thing is that when they kick of touch from wrong place there is an outcome.
So what is it that you are advocating?
 

crossref


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So what is it that you are advocating?
Don't have them retake the PK

The best that can happen is that we all hang around and wait while the ball is retrieved and then they kick it out again to pretty much the same place

Anything else is probably bad news for the ref
 
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Dickie E


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Don't have them retake the PK

The best that can happen is that we all hang around and wait while the ball is retrieved and then they kick it out again to pretty much the same place

Anything else is probably bad news for the ref
How far off the mark would the kick have to be for you require a retake?
If it was a quick tap by the SH alongside the scrum tunnel instead of behind the mark ... play on?
 

crossref


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A quick tap from materially the wrong place is a different matter, do have them retake that PK
(and from the side of the scrum rather than behind it is material, yes)
 

Dickie E


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I expect that if I saw the kicker clearly about to take the kick from the wrong place (eg he commences his run from on the mark) I would stop him before he kicks the ball
 

menace


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So if they choose a scrum option and you have to reset the scrum, you'll allow them to change their mind and take the tap and go?

The option has been chosen, they have to carry it out properly is all.

I'm curious - what basis in law do you have that says they can't change their kick type (eg go for posts/punt for LO?) . Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean?

I would not advocate that they can change from a reset scrum to then a tap/kick. But that's on the basis that they have successfully restarted with the first scrum - so the PK is now done and "won" (over). The reset scrum is for another reason, so you're now stuck in that phase of play until it is successfully over - and can't go back to a PK option.
 
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