penalty try

[nottheorgangrinder]

Hi chaps

So, here's the situation; U10s game against the hated local rival (actually, they're a really nice bunch who play in the spirit of the game and a good time was had by all...).

Our lot do the usual thing of forgetting how to tackle properly and get pinged for a few scrags and high tackles together with some gentle reminders about going for the legs not the head...

Opposition winger intercepts a pass and is clear for a try, he gets to about 2m from our goal line when one of our lads finally catches up with him, grabs him by the collar and drags him down to the ground.

A big blast of the whistle and an award of a penalty try swiftly follows.

Needless to say, I wasn't particularly welcome during our half time team talk, and the lad who made the tackle was a bit teary about it all.

I've been dwelling on this for a few days now - questioning myself as to whether I showed a massive lack of empathy by awarding the penalty try. In my mind there was no question the oppo winger would have been scoring had it not been for the illegal tackle, and therefore the penalty try was the only just outcome.

Has anyone else felt guilty about awarding a penalty try at minis level?

Cheers
NTOG

 

[Dixie]

I was always considered a bit too quick to apply the laws - but rarely got criticised for doing it to the oppo too. For me, the best way to learn is to see the consequences. You can be gently chided time and again - but give away a PT and the message hits home. There are ways of doing it of course - but as long as you don't make the child feel like a criminal I think you did what was best for the player, the team and your relationship with the hated local rivals.

 

[crossref]

I agree with Dixie.
A PT at u10 is going to be unusual but sometimes it will be the right call.

Reinforcing Dixie message.. A key thing here at this age is to be careful not to humiliate the tackler, it's a PT and a quick explanation, not a public bollocking You don't want to bring any kid to tears.

 

[nottheorgangrinder]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

I think I'm reflecting on this one so much because I thought I dealt with it well - there was no bollocking or calling time off and making a show of chastising him or anything silly like that. It was simply whistle, primary signal, secondary signal and matter of fact explanation, followed by 'let's make the most of the restart, chaps'. I also made a point of sitting down next to the lad in question at half time to reassure him that it was one of those things, that he was doing really well and just needed to start a bit lower when tackling. And he did have a much more disciplined second half in the tackling department, to be fair, so I'm reasonably confident that I've been dwelling on this way more than he has.

Whether Head Coach has forgiven me yet is another matter entirely...

 

[crossref]

Sounds good to me!

 

[Browner]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

I think I'm reflecting on this one so much because I thought I dealt with it well - there was no bollocking or calling time off and making a show of chastising him or anything silly like that. It was simply whistle, primary signal, secondary signal and matter of fact explanation, followed by 'let's make the most of the restart, chaps'. I also made a point of sitting down next to the lad in question at half time to reassure him that it was one of those things, that he was doing really well and just needed to start a bit lower when tackling. And he did have a much more disciplined second half in the tackling department, to be fair, so I'm reasonably confident that I've been dwelling on this way more than he has.

Whether Head Coach has forgiven me yet is another matter entirely...

he'll be too busy thinking up imaginative ways to encourage his players to tackle properly, to hold a grudge! ...... everyone needs to get them out of the habit of tackling high until they are either: elite, or RL converts !:biggrin:

 

[Dickie E]

I also made a point of sitting down next to the lad in question at half time

Good intention, but maybe this exacerbated the situation by embarrassing the boy

 

[Ian_Cook]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

I think I'm reflecting on this one so much because I thought I dealt with it well - there was no bollocking or calling time off and making a show of chastising him or anything silly like that. It was simply whistle, primary signal, secondary signal and matter of fact explanation, followed by 'let's make the most of the restart, chaps'. I also made a point of sitting down next to the lad in question at half time to reassure him that it was one of those things, that he was doing really well and just needed to start a bit lower when tackling. And he did have a much more disciplined second half in the tackling department, to be fair, so I'm reasonably confident that I've been dwelling on this way more than he has.

Whether Head Coach has forgiven me yet is another matter entirely...

Mission accomplished mate!

 

[menace]

Our lot do the usual thing of forgetting how to tackle properly and get pinged for a few scrags and high tackles together with some gentle reminders about going for the legs not the head...

Opposition winger intercepts a pass and is clear for a try, he gets to about 2m from our goal line when one of our lads finally catches up with him, grabs him by the collar and drags him down to the ground.

A big blast of the whistle and an award of a penalty try swiftly follows.

Personally, I think you got it spot on, and from the highlight I probably would also have considered it worthy of a team foul play YC because of the previous trend (which we dish out in these parts, the cherubs do learn like the big boys too)., But then again I'm a hard b@astard when it comes to foul play - they do get over tears and learn from it. If YCs are frowned upon in your parts then perhaps just have a word to the coach to sub him and the coach to have a word with the lad about the dangers of collar slinging and why it was a PT. If the coach doesn't get it then not your problem (I'm sure if it was done against one of his boys, he'd be expecting a PT for it).

I think it was also good to explain to the lad about why you had to PT it...at 10, I don't think he'd be embarrassed by that (at 13/14 above, yep).

 

[nottheorgangrinder]

Thanks guys. It's a steep learning curve, this reffing mularkey! Can't wait for next season when they're allowed to start kicking the ball (lord help us)!

 

[PaulDG]

A PT at u10 is going to be unusual but sometimes it will be the right call.

PTs are unusual at any age group - IMHO, they're underused.

"Penalty Try" appears several times in the Good Book and it's always "is awarded..." or "must be awarded..."
It doesn't ever say may be.

IMHO, when there's a Foul Play offence, which includes gamesmanship like not retiring 10m, knocking the ball out of the kickers hands as he's about to take a tap and go, etc., (deliberate offending), and it's clear that if you apply the "beam him up Scotty" test to the offender that the offended against player stood a very good chance of scoring then that's it. Penalty Try.

Seems to me referees often bottle that call - finding the yellow card seems easier in most cases.

To me, that's the wrong way round. The use of cards, etc. is at referee's discretion - optional management tools.

But the PT is not optional. It's the offended against side's just compensation for the offence and the offending side's just punishment.

(At U10, no cards, of course, but there is the option of requiring the offending player to be substituted - red carded in effect. That nuclear option is for thuggery IMHO, not for enthusiasm combined with lack of skill.)

 

[Browner]

Our lot do the usual thing of forgetting how to tackle properly and get pinged for a few scrags and high tackles together with some gentle reminders about going for the legs not the head..

Sounds like the gentle reminder style hasn't changed their behaviours, , time to either ratchet up to a less gentle style perhaps?

When I coached u9s ..I gave a piece of paper to each parent with a pen, the players were told that all parents had been assigned someone else's lad to count the number of tackles 'round the legs' made and or genuinely attempted during the match. The were told that they got 1 point for the tackle, 1 point if they recover the ball after someone else's tackle was made but 5 points if they tackled the player and recovered the ball ( legally on feet) after their own tackle !

After the fixture none of the players were interested in the match score (yes we breezed it) but they all wanted to know their tackle score. I kept results and repeated once a month and showed the players their improvement.

Suffice it to say 'tackling technique' was a strong contributory factor to our being CB finalists at u10 & u11..& champions at u12 & u13

Give it a go....

 

[TheBFG]

Hope you binned him too :noyc:

:wink:

But to be serious, sounds like you got it spot on :clap:

 

[Dickie E]

knocking the ball out of the kickers hands as he's about to take a tap and go,

That would be a BIG call.

 

[RefingKing]

I've awarded a few PT's this season if foul play prevented a certain try to be scored. U9's rugby with Pathways rules.

The sooner the players know to play within the laws of the game - the better.

They'll soon know not to do it if it costs them a try.

I've also moved teams back if they show dissent or don't retreat sufficiently when penalised, warned them firstly though, but if they don't listen there has got to be consequences. It's quietened a few teams down (and coaches too)!!

 

[Dixie]

That would be a BIG call.

Generally agree - but if the PK is on the 5m and no defender is allowed to interfere before getting behind the goal line? But normally, 15m+ out, this would be a YC rather than a PT - far too many potential defenders to state that a try was probable.

 

[Dickie E]

I've awarded a few PT's this season if foul play prevented a certain try to be scored. U9's rugby with Pathways rules.

The sooner the players know to play within the laws of the game - the better.

They'll soon know not to do it if it costs them a try.

I've also moved teams back if they show dissent or don't retreat sufficiently when penalised, warned them firstly though, but if they don't listen there has got to be consequences. It's quietened a few teams down (and coaches too)!!

That's the ticket. Show those 8 year olds no mercy.

 

[PaulDG]

Generally agree - but if the PK is on the 5m and no defender is allowed to interfere before getting behind the goal line? ...

Yep, that was the situation.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Generally agree - but if the PK is on the 5m and no defender is allowed to interfere before getting behind the goal line? But normally, 15m+ out, this would be a YC rather than a PT - far too many potential defenders to state that a try was probable.

I agree 100%.

Kids at this level often tend to play "banana" rugby. If a player slaps the ball out of the QT taker's hands, or the QT is taken and the only players behind the goal-line are >10m away, I'd go PT if any offside player stops him before he gets to the goal-line without first retreating to it.

 

[Dixie]

That's the ticket. Show those 8 year olds no mercy.

Also known as: decline to use your unquestioned authority as an adult referee to cheat the 8 year-old attackers out of what is rightfully theirs.

In their efforts to appear liberal-minded, why do otherwise rational people so often fail to recognise that a coin has two sides?