Player abuse and retaliation

[Chogan]

I was having a chat with my cousin about his playing days at uni in England. I don't think he was playing for a uni side but the local club nearby.

Anyway he was describing an incident where he was getting ready to feed a scrum. The scrum had formed and he was yet to feed, when his opposite number turns to him and tells him to "speed it up you potato picking paddy." (or something to that effect)

Cuz didn't take to kindly to that, stood up, turned and boxed his opponent.

A typical unremarkable brawl ensued and when that calmed down the ref called the cuz over to issue his marching orders but before he could say anything the typical chirpy scrummy got his bit in first.
"Ya wouldn't accept what he said if that prick had called my winger a nigger."

Now the cuz is very proud of this story because the ref left the cards in the pocket, had a brief chat with both 9s, one with a bloody nose and restarted with the same scrum.

Taking the story above as fact, how would you have handled it?

 

[ddjamo]

score, time in match, where was it being played, what level, league, friendly????

to answer - I may have done the same and I have done the same - but it would depend on quite a bit. that being said, I did walk out on the last friendly that turned into a brawl in the 2nd min.

 

[Chogan]

score, time in match, where was it being played, what level, league, friendly????

to answer - I may have done the same and I have done the same - but it would depend on quite a bit. that being said, I did walk out on the last friendly that turned into a brawl in the 2nd min.

Don't know, don't know, somewhere in England, don't know, don't know, it was a match in competition.

Sorry for lack of info.

 

[ddjamo]

well then - I will give you a big "maybe" my friend. sometimes the fact that they know the next issue will result in a card - but the color is unknown - does tend to force compliance.

 

[Chogan]

The thing that spiked my interest in the story was the refs initial interpretation of the verbal abuse.

 

[Browner]

Law means you PK against the initial 'unsportsmanlike comment" and warn the perpetrator of future conduct.

Retaliation by your cuz reverses the PK, and that Law is designed (imo) to prevent Brawls escalating.

As a referee........We administer law, the players don't take the law into their own hands, there are risks if they start doing so.

As a player .......I would have got even, later! & as an ex-backrow , the referee may not have seen it when it did happen.

 

[4eyesbetter]

As long as the how's your father is unremarkable? You, I understand why you did that, and I'm not going to accept what he said either; but I deal with it, so you can go for 10, but pay attention to what I'm going to do next please. You, completely unacceptable language, you're off. Thanks for condemning me of half an hour of trawling for the correct abuse form. Quick scribble of exact words used. Penalty restart.

 

[menace]

score, time in match, where was it being played, what level, league, friendly????
.

Ummmm, why should that matter when it comes to racial vilification and physical abuse?

As long as the how's your father is unremarkable? You, I understand why you did that, and I'm not going to accept what he said either; but I deal with it, so you can go for 10, but pay attention to what I'm going to do next please. You, completely unacceptable (language) racial slur, you're off. Thanks for condemning me of half an hour of trawling for the correct abuse form. Quick scribble of exact words used. Penalty restart.

This, this and this. Except my bold highlight in bold.

 

[Dickie E]

a yellow card for each. PK restart against the retaliator.

 

[Dixie]

Red card for each. Racial abuse is unacceptable, so is punching a guy - particularly to the head, which I take to be the meaning of "boxed". The difficulty comes, however, because the ref didn't originally see the abuse as a big deal. They are both white anglo-saxon types, and in the 70's and 80's there would have been absolutely no perception that people of the same racial background could be involved in racial prejudice against each other. That is a far more recent evolution of the concept of racial prejudice.

Fair play to the ref for taking on board your cousin's perception. I'd have used it to issue the other red, though, rather than let them both off.

 

[Dickie E]

how is the ref to know that "potato picking paddy" is racially offensive?

A Samoan gives a Tongan their version of "potato picking paddy". How am I supposed to deal with that? If the Tongan tells me it is a Polynesian version of the "n" word, do I take his word for it?

 

[TheBFG]

Assuming the ref didn't hear the "comment" card for he fighter, colour would depend on the extent of the fight (handbags = YC, Punches to head/face = RC) assuming the ref is made aware of the comments the other SH had better be whiter than white for the rest of the match :wink:

 

[Shelflife]

how is the ref to know that "potato picking paddy" is racially offensive?

A Samoan gives a Tongan their version of "potato picking paddy". How am I supposed to deal with that? If the Tongan tells me it is a Polynesian version of the "n" word, do I take his word for it?

This is an interesting point,While its clear to me as an Irishman thats its a racial slur it may not be that obvious to another nationalitity, and with the widespread travelling of players north and south even at amateur level it does make for an interesting senario.

I suppose all you can do is deal with the incident as you see it, and then report the verbals to the authorities as you heard it and let them take it from there.

Talk to the two capts and tell them what you are doing/going to do and take it from there.

 

[Browner]

Pitch 'descriptive' abuse only.

Browner the Pom(e).

Damn, have I just racially abused myself?!!?!!? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

- - - Updated - - -

Pitch 'descriptive' abuse only.

Browner the Pom(e).

Damn, have I just racially abused myself?!!?!!? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[SimonSmith]

Oh, I think we're comfortable with the idea that you can be a self abuser

 

[RobLev]

Red card for each. Racial abuse is unacceptable, so is punching a guy - particularly to the head, which I take to be the meaning of "boxed". The difficulty comes, however, because the ref didn't originally see the abuse as a big deal. They are both white anglo-saxon types, and in the 70's and 80's there would have been absolutely no perception that people of the same racial background could be involved in racial prejudice against each other. That is a far more recent evolution of the concept of racial prejudice.

...

I disagree; the canonical boarding house sign, going back to the 50s, was "No Blacks, Irish or dogs".

 

[ddjamo]

ahhhh....our beloved mr. j. rotten

 

[Browner]

Further investigation suggests that POM fails to qualify as self abuse... Damn!

Or so say the AASB & NZBSA, if you believe .... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_names_for_the_British

 

[Chogan]

This is an interesting point,While its clear to me as an Irishman thats its a racial slur it may not be that obvious to another nationalitity, and with the widespread travelling of players north and south even at amateur level it does make for an interesting senario.

The other thing is I would be hard pressed to be offended if anyone other than an Englishman said it.

 

[4eyesbetter]

The thought does occur that only an Englishman would think of saying it in the first place...