Player rolling after tackle

[Paule23]

What do you all think about players rolling after they have been tackled?

I've been training with my local side to get fit for the new season, and they are coaching that after you have gone down during a tackle, you then roll 360 to slow down the opposition attempt to get the ball and give time for your support players to arrive. Note this is not a momentum roll, where you momentum and body position naturally leads you to roll, but an intentional roll, for example even if you drop from a stationary tackle, still roll.

I saw this used during some Scottish Academy games at the weekend, it wasn't penalised but a few of them looked contrived and are a clear attempt to prevent the opposition competing fairly for the ball.

I know there is a balance, and how do you decide between a 'genuine' roll and a 'contrived' one, but I'm thinking penalise the contrived ones under the not releasing the ball law.

Thoughts?

 

[Thunderhorse1986]

If I saw this at my club I would at the very least warn them that this kind of tactic risks getting penalised in some instances. But that is not to say it is a guaranteed penalty every time. If you roll once with no opposition in close proximity, no one about to jackal etc, and make a metre ground, in the middle of the pitch, then it's unlikely to be a material offence for not releasing. If it happened with a player ready to pounce and jackal, I would be much more inclined to give the penalty for not releasing. So by promoting this tactic the team puts themselves at risk of being penalised.

 

[Decorily]

^ This and also one to 'manage' if required during a game with a word to captain/team.

 

[TheBFG]

"But ref, they do it on TV!!!!!!" :chin:

 

[DocY]

I've seen a local club coaching this, too. It seems to be the new squeeze ball (though safer) and I wouldn't be surprised to see it expressly banned.

For me it's something to manage initially (if not material - particularly since I expect both teams to be doing it) before getting your whistle out.

 

[didds]

I hate it.

Use better contact skills and support better.

didds

 

[The Fat]

Just to be clear, are we talking about the situation where the ball carrier goes to ground parallel to goal lines and then rolls forward towards oppo's goal line? Some call it a fire roll?

 

[Dickie E]

If a ball carrier finds he is facing the opposition goal line and rolls 180 to present ball to team-mates - I'm OK with that.

If a ball carrier rolls 360 and prevents an opponent from picking up the ball - illegal for lots of 15.5 reasons.

 

[DocY]

Just to be clear, are we talking about the situation where the ball carrier goes to ground parallel to goal lines and then rolls forward towards oppo's goal line? Some call it a fire roll?

Yep - more often forward than not, though it's more a thinly disguised attempt to hold onto the ball, rather than to make ground. Typically the BC is on their back (or even facing the right way) and rather than rolling the 90 degrees before placing the ball, they roll 270 degrees.

 

[Phil E]

"But ref, they do it on TV!!!!!!" :chin:

When you're on TV son, you can do it as well peep!

 

[TheBFG]

it clears the jacklers hands off the ball, until told otherwise, it's OK on "my pitch" "play on" (but once will be as many as they get away with :wink: )

It'll be very difficult to identify over a momentum situation,

 

[crossref]

It'll be very difficult to identify over a momentum situation,

that's true when it's a one-off ...but when it happens three tackles in a row ...

 

[ChrisR]

This is tricky because it's not specifically outlawed. I'd warn, then PK, because the tackled player has not released the ball immediately.

It's tricky coz we allow 90 and 180 without a question. We allow a jackknife to get the ball as far back as possible. Both of these could be interpreted as denying the ops access to the ball.

But for me it's same as didds, I don't like it. If one roll is OK, how about two? If it's OK at midfield how about a meter from goal?

If it's coached then you're likely to see it in the first minutes of the match. Warn, then PK and be ready with your definition of "immediately".

 

[DocY]

It's tricky coz we allow 90 and 180 without a question. We allow a jackknife to get the ball as far back as possible. Both of these could be interpreted as denying the ops access to the ball.

I don't. Okay, it doesn't happen very often, but if a jackler has got his hands on the ball before the BC has rolled (even if he's only trying to roll 90) and he still tries to roll I'd expect to penalise them. Tackling the BC so he falls the wrong way is a real skill.

What's a jackknife, BTW?

If it's coached then you're likely to see it in the first minutes of the match. Warn, then PK and be ready with your definition of "immediately".

I'd only warn if it's not material - I'd be happy to penalise it from the get-go if it's too much like holding on. If it does prove to be a trend then probably worth mentioning in the PMB (particularly if the coach is there).

 

[didds]

jackknife:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3Wn3Wej76U

basically its body bent in half with arms reaching out towards the feet, bum pointing at the oppo tryline

not really sure what the 2nd player is supposed to be/doing in that video cos he ain't coming through the gate for me!

didds

 

[Drift]

Most of the time it's play on for me, I'll allow the 1 roll but if they are taking more than 1 roll that is clearly not from momentum then we have an issue. Probably a quiet word to players at downtime before pinging it though. Like everything, try and manage it first.

 

[SimonSmith]

Depends on who the next man is, and how close he is.

If there's no competition for the ball, I'd probably allow it and have a quiet word.
If there's someone there contesting for the ball, it's likely a PK

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

I saw a kinda interesting strategy once not really covered in these videos or thread.

This team was way out there. They would take turns avoiding tackles and also passing the ball. I know it sounds far fetched and you guys will say I'm bs ing. But it kinda worked

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Can't see anything wrong with the jackknife as demonstrated in the clip, ball is presented and available to both teams.
Roling forward, I've seen it and will comment if it is too obvious. Law 15.5 covers it http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=15

 

[Ian_Cook]

For mine, one half-roll to present the ball back (if they have ended up facing the wrong way after the tackle) and only provided that an opponent hasn't already got his hands on the ball.

Any more than that, and they are taking the piss