PLaying the man on the ground

[therushen]

I currently coach Under 10 and have refereed for 3 seasons

If two players dive for a loose ball, player 1 claims it then player 2 lands on top of the 1st, off their feet, I call to roll away. (Law 14.1.c and d)

However if the 2nd player remains on their feet and plays the player, not the ball, they are not allowing the 1st player to act immediately. Is there a law that says you must not prevent a player from passing the ball or attempting to get to their feet? I thought there was. If so which is it please?

cheers
Ezra

 

[TheBFG]

Man on his feet is king!

They can't dive on the player on the floor (wait for the shouts of "he's got to let him up!" which all know isn't quite right), but by staying on his feet the player on the floor must give up the ball to him. As long as it's not a "tackle" there is no requirement for him to allow the player on the floor execute his options.

That said the player on his feet, should be encouraged to do something positive and not just hold the ball against the prone player (et al top level flankers!).

Welcome to the forum :wink:

 

[therushen]

Re: Playing the man on the ground

Thanks BFG

So the 2nd player, on his feet, is allowed to get put their hands on the player in an attempt to reach the ball?

This Sunday I penalised a player for not allowing the player, who had dived on a loose ball, to get to either get to their feet of play the ball. As they were moving to get themselves to their feet they were pushed back into the ground and on top of the ball. I said, either go for the ball, where you might draw a penalty for holding on or wait until the player is on their feet then rip or tackle.

It sounds from what you have said I was wrong. It felt in the spirit of the laws though.

 

[didds]

if the 1st player is in such a position that the 2nd player cannot get to the ball then within less than a second that situation should no longer exist - 1 cannot simply lay on top of the ball.

There is a moot point about player 2 dragging 1 into touch maybe whilst allowing 1 to do whatever he wants to do.

didds

 

[TheBFG]

player on his feet, must play the ball, but there is no requirement for them to let the player get up, that said, he can't stop him, does that make sense?

as the situation arises, call "play the ball", that covers all requirements.

 

[Browner]

Re: Playing the man on the ground

Thanks BFG

So the 2nd player, on his feet, is allowed to get put their hands on the player in an attempt to reach the ball?

This Sunday I penalised a player for not allowing the player, who had dived on a loose ball, to get to either get to their feet of play the ball. As they were moving to get themselves to their feet they were pushed back into the ground and on top of the ball. I said, either go for the ball, where you might draw a penalty for holding on or wait until the player is on their feet then rip or tackle.

It sounds from what you have said I was wrong. It felt in the spirit of the laws though.

Often its better to apply Actual Law than to debate spirit, which might have greater disparity for each participant/coach or watcher, but this is a different wide' topic!!

IMO you have two separate considerations to make dependant on whether you are refereeing a Law 14, or a Law 15 situation following your assessment of what you see happening.

Provided you dont infringe Law 14.2 (a) or (b) then there isnt any sanctionable reason why Mr OnFeet can't prevent Mr OnGround from attempting to exercise his 'obligations' that arise under 14.1(a) , indeed doing so is considered smart play by some. ( forcing release can be substantially more profitable than 'allowing up' because of the possession gathering opportunity)

However, it could be that if Mr On Ground is considered to have 'risen to his feet' , IF SO then the actions of his opponent of forcing him to ground now takes you into the intracies of Law 15. The higher up the game you go then these assessments become crucial, conversely noticeably less so in u10s!

Caution: you will find referees who prefer to see Mr OnFeet "not preventing Mr OnGround from excercising his 14.1(a) options" and will extend 14.2 offences remit beyond the two examples prescribed in Law 14.2. And hearing "play the ball" isn't uncommon.

 

[therushen]

Thanks for feedback Didds, BFG and Browner

Spotted this in the Under11 laws.

11. Ball to Ground
a) Players must play rugby on their feet, with the ball in hand.
b) If the ball goes to ground, players should be encouraged to pick it up. If they dive torecover the ball they must either get up or pass the ball immediately and be allowed to doso by the opposition.

So for the rest of this and the next season I'll be following this. Player on their feet must allow the player to either get up or pass the ball. This does go against what you guys have said regarding the full laws but fits the ethos of the continuum rules of play that are encouraging flowing play and protecting players in vulnerable positions.

Cheers

 

[crossref]

Thanks for feedback Didds, BFG and Browner

Spotted this in the Under11 laws.

11. Ball to Ground
a) Players must play rugby on their feet, with the ball in hand.
b) If the ball goes to ground, players should be encouraged to pick it up. If they dive torecover the ball they must either get up or pass the ball immediately and be allowed to doso by the opposition.

So for the rest of this and the next season I'll be following this. Player on their feet must allow the player to either get up or pass the ball. This does go against what you guys have said regarding the full laws but fits the ethos of the continuum rules of play that are encouraging flowing play and protecting players in vulnerable positions.

Cheers

therushen - you probably figured this out yourself, but you posted in the grassroots sections, and you didn't say that this was a question about u11 NROP, and everyone answered it thinking it was a question about adult rugby. There's actually a separate section of the forums for questions about mini and youth rugby.