Please clarify 8.3(b) for me.

[crossref]

Quite there is NO offence it the kicking out is accidental so no possible advantage. Advantage in this sense only occurs AFTER an offence.

but realistically -- when is the last time anyone ever judged that someone was deliberately kicking the ball out of the tunnel and gave a FK? It's just not something that ever happens. Ball comes out of the tunnel = reset 100% of the time, IME.

 

[crossref]

(this is a good thread, I must have read Law 8 100 times without really noticing this anomaly)

 

[Dickie E]

(this is a good thread, I must have read Law 8 100 times without really noticing this anomaly)

Your post #21 seems to sum it all up

 

[FlipFlop]

For me - if the non-throwing in side is attempting to hook the ball (hooker or prop), then there is a chance of kicking it out. If it happens once, accident, and reset. Twice I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but warn them, and reset. Third time is deliberately kicking out. Happens sometimes.

 

[Paule23]

I would suggest that you are the only referee in the world who does this.

I did say I may need to think again about this! I have played on where the ball pinged about inside the scum then came out of the tunnel. My thinking was I didn't really think there is a differences after it has been played (in this instance, hooked back, got kicked forward, then popped out the tunnel) than the same scenario but it pops out just behind a front row foot.

Given all the comments on here looks like I won't be applying the Paule23 law variation again.

 

[Pegleg]

For me - if the non-throwing in side is attempting to hook the ball (hooker or prop), then there is a chance of kicking it out. If it happens once, accident, and reset. Twice I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but warn them, and reset. Third time is deliberately kicking out. Happens sometimes.

Well said. There is no anomaly at all. Indeed it may not occur often but it does happen. The law is pretty clear. Kick it out deliberately and there is an offence. The ref MAY play advantage. If the ball goes straight through or the kick out is deemed accidental, reset. Really not sure why people don't get it.

 

[crossref]

Well said. There is no anomaly at all. Indeed it may not occur often but it does happen. The law is pretty clear. Kick it out deliberately and there is an offence. The ref MAY play advantage. If the ball goes straight through or the kick out is deemed accidental, reset. Really not sure why people don't get it.

because - in practice - how often do you ever judge that a player has deliberately kicked the ball out of the tunnel ? (and why?). It's a green unicorn

 

[OB..]

because - in practice - how often do you ever judge that a player has deliberately kicked the ball out of the tunnel ? (and why?). It's a green unicorn

If it stops being an offence and only causes a reset, then people will do it.

 

[Pegleg]

because - in practice - how often do you ever judge that a player has deliberately kicked the ball out of the tunnel ? (and why?). It's a green unicorn

It has happened. Therfore, it is not a unicorn of any colour. Also as OB point out if it's not Illegal it will be done regularly. There are many offences that are relatively rare. Should be remove all from the law book?

If it does not happen in your games. GREAT you've nothing to worry about. However, if it does, and you disallow an advantage and the side don't get the winning try. Oh dear.

 

[didds]

but realistically -- when is the last time anyone ever judged that someone was deliberately kicking the ball out of the tunnel and gave a FK? It's just not something that ever happens. Ball comes out of the tunnel = reset 100% of the time, IME.

possibly one reason its doesn't happen is because it penalisable, with frankly very little to gain from doing it ... except... running the clock down.

hmmm...

didds

 

[Pegleg]

And it is rarely pinged because, as this thread has shown, referees do not know some of the laws!

 

[buff]

Munster at Leicester today. Leicester scrum at around 46 minutes. Youngs feeds, the ball is clearly played the other Youngs, and pops out in front of the Leicester LHP. Whistle and reset.

 

[Dickie E]

Munster at Leicester today. Leicester scrum at around 46 minutes. Youngs feeds, the ball is clearly played the other Youngs, and pops out in front of the Leicester LHP. Whistle and reset.

'clearly played' is not the same as 'deliberately kicking it out'

 

[Dickie E]

Well said. There is no anomaly at all. Indeed it may not occur often but it does happen. The law is pretty clear. Kick it out deliberately and there is an offence. The ref MAY play advantage. If the ball goes straight through or the kick out is deemed accidental, reset. Really not sure why people don't get it.

[LAWS]8.3 When the advantage law is not applied
(b) Ball out of tunnel. Advantage must not be applied when the ball comes out of either end of the tunnel at a scrum without having been played. [/LAWS]

People don't get it because your assertion (in red) is inconsistent with Law 8.3. Law 8.3 appears to suggest that if the ball is played, then accidentally comes out of the tunnel, then advantage may apply.

 

[buff]

'clearly played' is not the same as 'deliberately kicking it out'

I never said it was. My point is that the ref blew immediately for a reset even though it was played.

 

[Pegleg]

[LAWS]8.3 When the advantage law is not applied
(b) Ball out of tunnel. Advantage must not be applied when the ball comes out of either end of the tunnel at a scrum without having been played. [/LAWS]

People don't get it because your assertion (in red) is inconsistent with Law 8.3. Law 8.3 appears to suggest that if the ball is played, then accidentally comes out of the tunnel, then advantage may apply.

What offence has been committed if the ball is accidentally kicked out of the tunnel? NONE. So we just reset. Advantage can only be played IF an offence has been committed. There is no inconsistency.