Pre-match 'talk'

[Drift]

if I was at your briefing I might ask exactly what action you expect to see at the command of pause :shrug:


(and you'd probably mark me down as trouble maker before we'd even started )

"You all to have your arms back off the opposition's shoulders with your head and shoulders still and above your hips" is my response.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Very same for me.

Do all the boots ask for FRs (and replacements) 9, 10 and Capt. to remain otherwise they all bugger off and you have to call them back

Do CTPE as per aboves.
LO whatever you mark LoT etc.
#9 in middle of tunnel and get onside.
Quick PK FK - not behind me
#10 - 5 at scrum 10 at the LO - you boss all the backs

Skipper is there so he can hear it all. Find out if they intend going back in to changing rooms pre-start and sort toss at mutually agreed time - I try to sort it after 2nd brief about 30 mins to kick off - any later and you end up cutailing/missing your warm up or one team is off in/coming out and/or you end up doing it just before kick off (which is fine if that's what you want)

At toss both skippers - what you want in terms of game. Mine is tackle area "protocols" and listen to what I'm saying. Decisions will be explained not debated and only at breaks in play. Discipline is your (their) responsibility.

That's about it.

If you are kicking off at 1500 try to get all the above done by 1430 at the latest.*

All this is out on the pitch - going in the changing room to do it is a pain in the arse IMHO. That gives you 5-10 minutes to sort TJs and Physios and anything else and 20 mins to get warm.

I think that's it.

YMMV

*This tends to get bollocksed up the lower the standard of match as fat smokers are just wandering out at 1450.

 

[didds]

lso who will be at the front of the lineout, at the first lineout I will set the gap and it's your job to keep it all day.

even if he is 40m away not involved at a shortened lineout?

see my comments above


didds

 

[didds]

one small request from a coach... it would be really helpful to arrange with the skipper, before they start their warm up, when might be a convenient moment to come and do boots and the chat. This isn't about being dictated to, but ensuring that you get people's attention and don't break the warm-up in an inopportune moment. In the nsame way I would imagine wyou wouldn;t want to have to break your own warm up and mental prep to go and check some boots etc .

cheers

didds

 

[Toby Warren]

one small request from a coach... it would be really helpful to arrange with the skipper, before they start their warm up, when might be a convenient moment to come and do boots and the chat. This isn't about being dictated to, but ensuring that you get people's attention and don't break the warm-up in an inopportune moment. In the nsame way I would imagine wyou wouldn;t want to have to break your own warm up and mental prep to go and check some boots etc .

cheers

didds

100% spot on first thing I do is ask for skipper and ask him when is good to do studs and briefing 99/100 they say now is fine. This is just polite surely doesn't everyone do this?

 

[Drift]

even if he is 40m away not involved at a shortened lineout?

see my comments above


didds

Short lineouts are called very often down here, and 99/100 I am at the front of the lineout anyway so can set a new gap if they are too close.



On your other point about talking to the teams and not interfering with their warm up I will always find a player I recognise and ask when they are going into the rooms and will follow them in and talk to them whilst they are getting changed.

 

[SimonSmith]

one small request from a coach... it would be really helpful to arrange with the skipper, before they start their warm up, when might be a convenient moment to come and do boots and the chat. This isn't about being dictated to, but ensuring that you get people's attention and don't break the warm-up in an inopportune moment. In the nsame way I would imagine wyou wouldn;t want to have to break your own warm up and mental prep to go and check some boots etc .

cheers

didds

Agree - I ask the coach when he/she would like the boots and talk done. At that stage it's about working with the Coach and Captain. When we start to actually talk, the dynamic changes to me taking control, but it's a nice touch to look like you're not an autocratic prick

 

[Simon Thomas]

one small request from a coach... it would be really helpful to arrange with the skipper, before they start their warm up, when might be a convenient moment to come and do boots and the chat. This isn't about being dictated to, but ensuring that you get people's attention and don't break the warm-up in an inopportune moment. In the nsame way I would imagine wyou wouldn;t want to have to break your own warm up and mental prep to go and check some boots etc .

cheers

didds

standard practice at L5 and L6 to ask when and where for boots & FR / 9 / 10 brief, who's got match cards etc.

 

[Adam]

At the pre-match brief I get the front row, scrum half, fly half and the captain if he wants to listen. I say:

Lads, the engagement sequence will be Crouch (1 2) Touch (1 2) Pause (1 2) Engage. Listen to my calls; don't go in early; bind long on the torso, not on the arm with your knuckles up. Do not push until the ball is put in. Front man at the lineout? I'm marking the defensive line today so when it's your ball give the space, their ball the mark is yours OK? 9? I will try and stay out of your way at the scrum however I do need to see the engagement so please don't rush me until we've engaged safely. 10? At the lineout if it's caught and brought down my arm will go up. Ensure your line stays 10 metres. It's your responsibility to set your line 5 at scrums and 10 at lineouts; any doubts ask me before the set piece OK?

Doesn't take long, gets the points I need across, and doesn't hang me out dry.

Oh, and I brief the captains at the toss:

We're a team today so please work with me. Remember your are responsible for your teams.

 

[Davet]

Lots of good advice.

Main issues:

Sound confident and relaxed.

Go through engage sequence with all FR and FR replacements - this is critical, if you do nothing else do this!

Pretty much all else is optional, but I recommend the approach of talking to scrum half about when you will rule the ball out of a ruck (when the ball leaves the ruck is what law says), but that when the ball is won he can dig for it a bit. Hands on doesn't equal out, but he can't put hands on then mess about, if necessary tell him you will call play on.

That's the main area of uncertainty and will vary ref by ref, to a degree, so that's why you mention it.

Also mention no tap PK when you are not looking.

Most other things are well covered in Law and mentioning things like no back chat, questions only via captain, offside lines etc should go without saying - but if it suits your style then fine.

Personally I would set the lineout at the first lineout, you have time then, and you can stop them taking it till you're happy. Subsequent ones just follow the same pattern. They should know that your arm up at lineout means backs stay back.

Shorter is sweeter, they know the game, they should know the laws - you're not there to give them a crash course, merely to clarify any issues that may vary from ref to ref, and there should not be too many of those or we are wasting our time with assessments and on here.

 

[Phil E]

Lots of good advice.

Main issues:

Sound confident and relaxed.

Go through engage sequence with all FR and FR replacements - this is critical, if you do nothing else do this!

Pretty much all else is optional,

Boot and clothing check isn't optional. :nono:

 

[4eyesbetter]

I'd like to digress slightly (since I obviously can't help with the precise topic). I also used to have an FA qualification, so here's a few things you might find useful.

Most importantly; did you use a Fox 40? Tornado? Something else pealess? Don't do that. Having said that I'm not at all convinced by these huge wide-mouth Thunderers that the entire rugby world is in love with. They sound beautiful if you're about 5 yards away, but unless you're gonna blow the pea out for everything, I've not seen a referee yet who used one of them and didn't have problems with getting attention in the heat of the moment. The little 660 is the one you want.

Staying on whistles; your ball out of play whistle can be used for that and other minor stoppages, your old free-kick whistle is now your penalty (or other "major stoppage") whistle, and experiment a bit to find something that sounds reasonably long and happy for tries.

Read this thread and make sure it's been properly digested. The 10m law is your friend, you use it if any of the minor chirping starts, the stuff that used to annoy you but you'd think "I can't book him for that, it's too soft". Now you can do something about it!

Most captains will actually behave like team captains and not like another lout with an armband. You can and should use them to your advantage; if he says to you "just bring any problems to me and I'll sort them", there's a better-than-even chance that he might actually mean it. Call time off and warn him before you bin anyone for persistent infringement. A lot of the time this will sort the problem for you, and if it doesn't, being able to say "I told you so" ends any possibility of argument.

Cards; remember how you got told about the FA's extremely formal procedure for giving them, and probably ignored most of it after half a dozen matches? You want to go back there now. You've probably got a teamsheet so you don't need to worry about getting a name; but you call the player and skipper in, explain to the captain what the offence is, then what the sanction is, then put the card up. This doesn't have to be a speech, though, and because rugby is an enlightened sport they give referees microphones so you can hear examples of good practice from the professional game.

Finally, running your diagonal will get you funny looks, as will asking club linesmen to flag for offside... ;-)

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Good post 4eyesbetter.

Surrendaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!fftopic:

 

[Psychic]

Thanks for all the replies. Lots of useful information in here I can use.

Paperwork side, I have no clue on what to expect yet. Hopefully someone at the society will give me pointers on Thursday. I do remember having to fill out, in triplicate, every yellow and red card given for the FA though. Is it similar here?

I'm presuming that I'm going to be given either a non-league game, or some unimportant third team somewhere to cut my teeth on. Not sure if I'll get team sheets. Hell, I'll probably be lucky if entire teams are wearing matching shirts

I have a thunderer from ELRA training, but wasn't keen on its size, so I'll continue with my smaller ones. They are a pea ones though.

I've read the thread about dissent. From recent experience running touch on adult rugby, I have a feeling I'm too lenient though. Probably from my football experience where it is almost commonplace. I know the actual ref in the games appeared to hear way more than I did, even from the spectators behind me! I will try and address this with the captains first though in an attempt to stop it starting.

I had a thought, although it may be me being paranoid... Some mention doing the talks & checks about half an hour before. After that, quite often, the teams retire back to the changing rooms. At this point, they could change kit or damage studs/boots on the concrete...

And as for the diagonal... It would certainly keep the players on their toes wondering what the ref is up to!

 

[Stoo48]

Couple of points from me, no mention of discipline, I try to hand this to the Captains, it's usually the last thing I say in my pre match and I reiterate it when I call theCaptains together for the toss. "Discipline is your responsibility as Captain, I have three options to use for this and they start at sh1t (use a different word for junior side, Religious college based side or if an assesor is listening....) and get progressivly worse, do we agree? Thank you".

I also in the early stage of my talk make myself available for any player to talk to me before KO. Be open and approachable.

The other advise for all referees just starting or experienced, is Smile, its really difficult to get cross with players when your smiling.....

 

[Davet]

Lots of good advice.

Main issues:

Sound confident and relaxed.

Go through engage sequence with all FR and FR replacements - this is critical, if you do nothing else do this!

Pretty much all else is optional,

Boot and clothing check isn't optional. :nono:

Boot and clothing check are not part of the pre-match chat. They're mandatory, but not something to discuss.

 

[Bryan]

Agree - I ask the coach when he/she would like the boots and talk done. At that stage it's about working with the Coach and Captain. When we start to actually talk, the dynamic changes to me taking control, but it's a nice touch to look like you're not an autocratic prick

This also does a couple more things than coming across as Mr Empathy (which, in my case, evaporates at kick-off):
1. It gives the referee an idea as to whether the coach/captain has a friggin' clue. Vapid looks and gallic shrugs are not a good sign of things to come.
2. It also defers all responsibility to the teams so that they look the idiots if they're pissing around when you've turned up at the agreed-upon time.

Oh, and I brief the captains at the toss:

We're a team today so please work with me. Remember your are responsible for your teams.

It's cool that this stuff works for other referees (horses for courses and all that); it sounds too much of a love-in for me, but then I'm used to a less, hmmm, touchy feely approach :knuppel2:

 

[Phil E]

Boot and clothing check are not part of the pre-match chat. They're mandatory, but not something to discuss.

We are advising a new ref at his first game.

Your advise was that the only mandatory item was the FR brief.

Hide behind semantics if you wish to.

 

[Adam]

It's cool that this stuff works for other referees (horses for courses and all that); it sounds too much of a love-in for me, but then I'm used to a less, hmmm, touchy feely approach :knuppel2:

Saying that I've been told I need to be more nasty on the pitch as they don't want to be my friend in the bar, so why should you be theirs on the pitch?

 

[Davet]

Phil E

Whatever.

But if you want to go through the whole process for a brand new ref then you should probably tell him about when to arrive, what to wear, and his warm ip routine as well.

Or you may simply stick to the subject he asked about and assume he's an adult with a few ideas about the rest already.

You may hide behind pedantry if you wish.