[Ruck] Pulling players forward in ruck so that they fall over

[CrouchTPEngage]

I'm seeing a lot of TV games where defenders are pulling ruck-bound players forward to try to over-balance them.
Never seen it penalised but , to me, it is illegal. I'm starting to see it down at my games now too.
I wonder if players are just copying what they see on TV ?

Anyway - just wondered if you too are penalising it or warning players to stop doing it.
Law reference is "collapsing a ruck"

[LAWS]
15.16 RUCK
Players must not:

Pick the ball up with their legs.
Intentionally collapse a ruck or jump on top of it.
Intentionally step on another player.
Fall over the ball as it is coming out of a ruck.
Kick, or attempt to kick, the ball out of a ruck.
Sanction: Penalty.[/LAWS]

 

[didds]

i guess this is the usual debate of "has a ruck formed". If supporter S1 takes up a stance over the ball and defender D1 arrives, grabs S1's shirt and pulls him over, has that act created a ruck? Or does a ruck bund require armpit to wrist contact etc (which hasn't happened)



"Dangerous play" potentially covers it also.

I think the answer is "manage it"

didds

 

[Camquin]

Ruck only requires "contact".
unlike a maul which requires bound together"

 

[Taff]

i guess this is the usual debate of "has a ruck formed". If supporter S1 takes up a stance over the ball and defender D1 arrives, grabs S1's shirt and pulls him over, has that act created a ruck? Or does a ruck bund require armpit to wrist contact etc (which hasn't happened)

Ruck only requires "contact".
unlike a maul which requires bound together"

As Camquin says a Ruck only requires "Physical Contact" so I would say a Ruck had formed as soon as the opponent grabbed him to pull it forward.

Having said that I don't think I have ever seen it penalised either; but if it becomes a real issue then I reckon the lawbook allows us to penalise it.

 

[didds]

sorry guys - of course.

DOH!

didds

 

[crossref]

the modern convention (alas) is to allow players to collapse rucks .. so we don't penalise it

 

[Ian_Cook]

I'll tell you what, I'll make a deal with the players.

I'll stop allowing defenders in a ruck to pull opponent forward to overbalance them, just as soon as tackled players stop deliberately rolling over and over forwards, after they have been tackled, to overbalance the jackler and cause him to put his hands down.

 

[Dickie E]

the modern convention (alas) is to allow players to collapse rucks .. so we don't penalise it

its even worse than that. Often the ref will penalise the jackler for going off his feet.

 

[crossref]

I'll tell you what, I'll make a deal with the players.

I'll stop allowing defenders in a ruck to pull opponent forward to overbalance them, just as soon as tackled players stop deliberately rolling over and over forwards, after they have been tackled, to overbalance the jackler and cause him to put his hands down.

Now that was specifically in the 2018 guidance .. I am enforcing that one (although from the players reactions I know that the message hasn't reached every ref)

 

[ChrisR]

As to the Law I think it's OK to pull an opponent forward out of the ruck but not down over the ball. Don't like it but the law doesn't forbid it.

 

[Taff]

the modern convention (alas) is to allow players to collapse rucks .. so we don't penalise it

Just as "Crocodile Rolls" seem to be tolerated. If crocodile rolls are tolerated, why not pulling a player forward? Technically, BOTH are collapsing the Ruck.

As to the Law I think it's OK to pull an opponent forward out of the ruck but not down over the ball. Don't like it but the law doesn't forbid it.

Given that there will probably be players on the floor, I can't imagine a way where a potential jackler can be pulled forward without him falling over.

 

[Rich_NL]

Both pulling-down and rolling after the tackle get a warning from me, then they get penalised. Is this very unusual, then?

 

[crossref]

Modern ruck technique is almost entirely about forcing opponents onto the floor . I don't see anyone penalising that , so I think you are unusual, yes