[Law] Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

[WPLoosie]

Is it Legal to bind onto your ball carrying teammate and push/support him into the opposition tackler/s, i.e. bind onto your ball carrier before he makes contact with tackler/s?

One could argue this happens all the time around the ruck, but is it considered to be the same scenario when your big No.1 is standing 5-10 meters back from the scrum half and receiving it on the charge and has his flanker grabbing him by the shorts and driving him into the tacklers?
I recall this being penalised at Test level previously, but in this case it is at schoolboy level U15?

Thoughts and comments?
Thanks

 

[Rushforth]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

Flying wedges are not allowed.

Usually I welcome new posters but in your other post you were not adding anything of value whatsoever. Richie McCaw cheats all the time, but he doesn't gouge as far as I've heard. (Yes, I have not added anything either).

 

[Dickie E]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

Is it Legal to bind onto your ball carrying teammate and push/support him into the opposition tackler/s, i.e. bind onto your ball carrier before he makes contact with tackler/s?

One could argue this happens all the time around the ruck, but is it considered to be the same scenario when your big No.1 is standing 5-10 meters back from the scrum half and receiving it on the charge and has his flanker grabbing him by the shorts and driving him into the tacklers?
I recall this being penalised at Test level previously, but in this case it is at schoolboy level U15?

Thoughts and comments?
Thanks

Hmmm. 14 year olds. I wouldn't see it as illegal per se (it doesn't meet the conditions of a flying wedge) but if it is dangerous it is not on. I'd likely manage the players out of doing it again.

 

[WPLoosie]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

Flying wedges are not allowed.

Usually I welcome new posters but in your other post you were not adding anything of value whatsoever. Richie McCaw cheats all the time, but he doesn't gouge as far as I've heard. (Yes, I have not added anything either).

mate, I never said Richie McCaw eye gouged... please do not misquote me on that, Richie was one of the finest rugby players to have ever played this game, period. The inference from that other post was that Richie never seemed to get penalised.... always played on the edge (offisides edge that is) and seemed to get away with it for 90% of his career. He played the game as hard as anyone I know but IMO seemed to get significantly more leniency than many others players in his era. I wouldn't have called him a "cheat' like you have - played on the edge and got away with it if permitted is how I would have put it?
No need to welcome me though, no offence taken and you are right, very little value added by yourself - all the best brother

 

[crossref]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

[LAWS]‘Flying Wedge’. The type of attack known as a ‘Flying Wedge’ usually happens near the goal line, when the attacking team is awarded a penalty kick or free kick.
The kicker tap-kicks the ball and starts the attack, either by driving towards the goal line or by passing to a team-mate who drives forward. Immediately, team mates bind on each side of the ball carrier in a wedge formation. Often one or more of these team mates is in front of the ball carrier. A ‘Flying Wedge’ is illegal.
Sanction: Penalty kick at the place of the original infringement.[/LAWS]

the Law says it usually happens at a PK -- which presumably means it also happens at other times, for instance off the back of a ruck.

I think what makes it dangerous is when the distance between the teams is great, so that the ball carrying wedge has time to build up some speed before encountering a similarly speeding defence

so in your scenario: if the wedge is forming 5-10m back from the scrum half - so perhaps 7-13m back from the defensive line, then I'd say that --- if you think it's dangerous -- you have the support in law to call it a flying wedge and stop it.

 

[DocY]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

What Dickie said. It's probably not going to be a flying wedge, so not illegal in itself, so use your judgement on whether a particular incident is dangerous.

 

[thepercy]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

What Dickie said. It's probably not going to be a flying wedge, so not illegal in itself, so use your judgement on whether a particular incident is dangerous.

If a teammate binds on both sides then you have a wedge.

 

[didds]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

so in your scenario: if the wedge is forming 5-10m back from the scrum half - so perhaps 7-13m back from the defensive line, then I'd say that --- if you think it's dangerous -- you have the support in law to call it a flying wedge and stop it.

No issue with that, but frankly I can;t see the point of running from 13m away with someone bound to you - you'll hardly between the pair of you be at full pace, and unlikely to "go forward" as efficiently. Just seems pointless to me with that much space to run. 1-2 m from the oppo maybe, just to provide a bit more grunt in contact, but its not high sped stuff here.

didds

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

No issue with that, but frankly I can;t see the point of running from 13m away with someone bound to you - you'll hardly between the pair of you be at full pace, and unlikely to "go forward" as efficiently. Just seems pointless to me with that much space to run. 1-2 m from the oppo maybe, just to provide a bit more grunt in contact, but its not high sped stuff here.

didds

F=mxa

 

[didds]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

F=Mxa

yup.

I doubt acceleration between two bodies bound together over 13 metres is as much as one body over the same difference.

didds

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

yup.

I doubt acceleration between two bodies bound together over 13 metres is as much as one body over the same difference.

didds

The acceleration would have to be less than half for two bound bodies than one solo body to have less force.

I suggest an experiment, have the boys line up try a solo tackle and then two bound together. I know the answer

 

[WPLoosie]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

Thanks people, some useful thoughts and insights here - much appreciated

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

I think it should be specifically outlawed at all levels. Usually happens at a pick and drive close to the line. It can be dangerous.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

I think it should be specifically outlawed at all levels. Usually happens at a pick and drive close to the line. It can be dangerous.

Agreed

 

[didds]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

It _can_.

but _rarely_ is.


Dropping a lifted player from height _can_ be dangerous. But _rarely_ is.

Should we stop lifting players maybe?

didds

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

It _can_.

but _rarely_ is.


Dropping a lifted player from height _can_ be dangerous. But _rarely_ is.

Should we stop lifting players maybe?

didds

I just wrote a nice reply, but didn't get it completed in time for submission

But your argument sucks and does not apply

 

[DocY]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

But your argument sucks and does not apply

Well I guess that settles that.

 

[didds]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

I just wrote a nice reply, but didn't get it completed in time for submission

But your argument sucks and does not apply

that expands the debate .

well argued.

didds

 

[DocY]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

It _can_.

but _rarely_ is.


Dropping a lifted player from height _can_ be dangerous. But _rarely_ is.

Should we stop lifting players maybe?

didds

Playing rugby can be dangerous and frequently is.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Re: Pushing ("supporting") your own ball carrier into the opposition tacklers

that expands the debate .

well argued.

didds

Sorry, I can't type fast enough before the site times me out. i had a long reply how rugby is mirroring the fall of Western Civilization with over regulation, cowardice, and placing the burden on the referee.

I hate watching the game fail, but I have about 30 yrs left and I'm not gonna change much if I can't type quickly