QTI in front of the mark (SCO v ITA)

Stu10


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In the SCO v ITA game this past weekend, ITA carried the ball into touch at approximately their own 5m line, Scotland took a QTI from 1-2m out from the try line, which the ref disallowed for being in front of the mark. Subsequently the full lineout was conducted with SCO throwing in. Should possession have gone to ITA?

Law 18.4.a
At a quick throw, the ball is thrown in:
Between the mark of touch and the thrower’s own goal line
Sanction: Option of lineout or scrum.


I discussed this with a fellow referee on Saturday afternoon and he said that he would do the same (ignore the error), and implied it would be being a "jobsworth". However, it made me wonder (again) on which laws do we choose to ignore, and is that a slippery slope?

In this instance, does the level of rugby change the decision. At international level, should players know better and accept consequence for a mistake like this?

One might argue it was a minor error and not material. However, had possession been given to ITA then they may have made a decent clearance from their own line. Instead, SCO laid siege to the ITA goal line for the next 5 minutes resulting in a YC against ITA and 7 points for SCO.

Thoughts?
 

didds

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Is thjis where the samction is possibly out of kilter with whats actually (not) happened? ie by not taking the QTI correctly, the match hasnt actually retsrted . And as the match hasnt restarted, how can the oppo be awarded the option?

CF taking a tap FK/PK from the wrong place.

No doubt there are dozens of similar examples where they can be and do! LOL
 

Phil E


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Actually the Quick Throw was disallowed because Scotland used a different ball.

5. A quick throw is disallowed and a lineout is awarded to the same team if :
a. A lineout had already been formed; or
b. The ball had been touched after it went into touch by anyone other than
the player throwing in or the player who carried the ball into touch; or
c. A different ball is used from the one that originally went into touch.
 

Stu10


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Actually the Quick Throw was disallowed because Scotland used a different ball.

5. A quick throw is disallowed and a lineout is awarded to the same team if :
a. A lineout had already been formed; or
b. The ball had been touched after it went into touch by anyone other than
the player throwing in or the player who carried the ball into touch; or
c. A different ball is used from the one that originally went into touch.
That was the game against Ireland.

In the Italy game the ref very clearly shouted "in front of the mark".
 

Phil E


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That was the game against Ireland.

In the Italy game the ref very clearly shouted "in front of the mark".

My bad. Have you got a video?
 

Stu10


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My bad. Have you got a video?
Do you have access to BBC iplayer? The incident is at 20:00 minutes on the game clock (50:20 into the iplayer video).
 

BikingBud


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I feel in some of these games the speed of play is too swift for the officials. They have not observed and reacted effectively.

We know players will in certain circumstances apply pressure to play especially where they feel the opposition are not prepared. If the players do decide to try and force the pace such as taking a penalty or free kick from the in front of the mark (not provided by the ref) or knocking it on, not tapping it (I think I saw recently) taking it behind the referee etc they make the wrong decision and the sanction should be appropriately applied but refs playing catch up do not always get it correct eg Wales v Ireland 2011, where a different ball was used for the QTI and Kaplan looks for help but gets none, the touch judge is in dream world.
 

BikingBud


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In the SCO v ITA game this past weekend, ITA carried the ball into touch at approximately their own 5m line, Scotland took a QTI from 1-2m out from the try line, which the ref disallowed for being in front of the mark. Subsequently the full lineout was conducted with SCO throwing in. Should possession have gone to ITA?

Law 18.4.a
At a quick throw, the ball is thrown in:
Between the mark of touch and the thrower’s own goal line
Sanction: Option of lineout or scrum.


I discussed this with a fellow referee on Saturday afternoon and he said that he would do the same (ignore the error), and implied it would be being a "jobsworth". However, it made me wonder (again) on which laws do we choose to ignore, and is that a slippery slope?

In this instance, does the level of rugby change the decision. At international level, should players know better and accept consequence for a mistake like this?

One might argue it was a minor error and not material. However, had possession been given to ITA then they may have made a decent clearance from their own line. Instead, SCO laid siege to the ITA goal line for the next 5 minutes resulting in a YC against ITA and 7 points for SCO.

Thoughts?
Of course it's material. ITA had no advantage, may have made a complete hash of their option, got mullered in the scrum (unlikely but perhaps) but at least they would have had some influence.

With regard to ignored laws - offside at the kick off. England U20s got pulled for it but it is rife in every game and although some may say it does not affect anything, the increased pressure leads to; poor catching/knock forward as well as the more prevalent nowadays tap back by the winger running on to regain possession. If they are not sneaking a yard, or five, then they do not get to the ball and the receiving side get a free catch and relatively easy play the ball away.
 

Stu10


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I raised this question with the people remaining at the end of our Society meeting earlier this week, and not one person said they would have turned over possession to Italy :rolleyes:
 

didds

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Of course it's material. ITA had no advantage, may have made a complete hash of their option, got mullered in the scrum (unlikely but perhaps) but at least they would have had some influence.

With regard to ignored laws - offside at the kick off. England U20s got pulled for it but it is rife in every game and although some may say it does not affect anything,
I suppose its the adage often mentioned here - if it doesn't affect anything why do teams bother to do it?
 

crossref


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For offside at kick off if it's a fat prop ambling I ignore it. If it's the chaser at 20mph and he gets anywhere close to ball I give the scrum
 
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