[Law] Question from World Rugby law quiz

[tewdric]

"The ball is stationary on the ground inside the defending team's in-goal area. An attacking player lying on the ground in touch-in-goal, reaches over the touch-in-goal line and places his hand on the ball. What is the correct decision?"

I got the answer wrong - what should it be?

 

[crossref]

PK to the opposition Law 13.3

 

[Decorily]

Try...

 

[Arabcheif]

Try for me too

 

[Dan_A]

Try

Law 8.2e
A try is scored when an attacking player:
e. Who is in touch or touch-in-goal, grounds the ball in the opponents’ in-goal provided the player is not holding the ball.

 

[Balones]

Law 13.3 is about lying on the floor in open play. This player is lying on the floor off the pitch and therefore not in open play. Or is he?

Law 8.2e doesn’t say the player must be on his feet.

Based on the above I would expect a try as the answer but knowing the history of the WR quiz I wouldn’t be surprised with a penalty as the answer!

Is the game actually being ‘played’ at the stage outlined in the question? Law 1 mentions about the game being played by players on their feet but doesn’t actually define what is the nature of the game in relation to ‘play’.

 

[crossref]

The Law is about players lying on the ground , which is defined in Law 1.
It includes the in goal and all the area beyond the touchlines

[LAWS].
The game is played only by players who are on their feet.


Players, who go to ground to gather the ball or who go to ground with the ball, must immediately:
Get up with the ball; or
Play (but not kick) the ball; or
Release the ball.
Sanction: Penalty.

Once the ball is played or released, players on the ground must immediately either move away from the ball or get up. Sanction: Penalty.

A player on the ground without the ball is out of the game and must:
Allow opponents who are not on the ground to play or gain possession of the ball.
Not play the ball.
Not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.


[/LAWS]

As i said in another thread 13.3 is a new Law with a lot of impact that people are only slowly waking up to

 

[Balones]

The Law is about players lying on the ground , which is defined in Law 1.
It includes the in goal and all the area beyond the touchlines

[LAWS].
The game is played only by players who are on their feet.


Players, who go to ground to gather the ball or who go to ground with the ball, must immediately:
Get up with the ball; or
Play (but not kick) the ball; or
Release the ball.
Sanction: Penalty.

Once the ball is played or released, players on the ground must immediately either move away from the ball or get up. Sanction: Penalty.

A player on the ground without the ball is out of the game and must:
Allow opponents who are not on the ground to play or gain possession of the ball.
Not play the ball.
Not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.


[/LAWS]

As i said in another thread 13.3 is a new Law with a lot of impact that people are only slowly waking up to

The only bit that is relevant is the bit in the last paragraph which says ‘not play the ball’. Is touching the ball ‘playing’ it? Playing is a verb suggesting a movement beyond merely touching.

 

[crossref]

How about the very first sentence in quote box

 

[crossref]

[LAWS]Played
The ball is played when it is intentionally touched by a player[/LAWS]

 

[didds]

If you'd asked me -say - five years ago my understanding would have been "try".

That may have been wrong but in my head it would have been right, no black and white .

But now - I've absolutely no idea. TBH the past couple of years have completely confused me wrt various things. I really don;t know now. try? No try cos he isn't actually on both feet singing waltzing matilda backwards in Polish? Try if he is laying down but with only one foot T-iG? try as long as its only one foot T-i-G? Does the outcome depend on who actually put the ball in-goal now?

And I wouldn't even be surprised if the laws if looked at and interpreted in a specific way said lineout of the 22m.

didds

 

[ChuckieB]

Ball is in the in goal area. Pretty much anything goes to allow a touch down, surely?

I think of the try by Conor Murray where NO said it had broken the line and thus allowed CM to propel himself forward in a second movement in order to ground the ball.

 

[SimonSmith]

21.10

• if a player is in touch or touch-in-goal, they can make a touch down or score a try by grounding the ball in in-goal provided they are not holding the ball.

 

[Flish]

21.10

• if a player is in touch or touch-in-goal, they can make a touch down or score a try by grounding the ball in in-goal provided they are not holding the ball.

[/list]

In the iPad app (not yet updated so old numbers) the picture accompanying this is a player on his feet, I think the intention of this law is to say that you can be off the pitch and ground the ball to score, I don’t think there’s any intention to suggest you can be off feet, off the pitch and score but not when on the pitch!

That said a lot is let go in goal with players diving to ground the ball all over, I think in most scenarios a try would be allowed unless someone is very obviously off their feet and out of the game (on pitch or not)

 

[L'irlandais]

I like Balones approach. Let’s ask ourselves another question, which law reference allows you to do anyway other than the following ?
[LAWS]Law 21: In-goal
An attacking player grounding the ball in in-goal scores a try.[/LAWS]All of Tackle, ruck, maul and scrum Laws cease once ingoal, so Law 13 for open play presumably does as well, right? So the limited options of a player off their feet in open play no longer apply ingoal.
Lots of other Laws specifically allow a player off their feet to ground the ball, momentum try, tackled player near the line, placing the ball in a single Movement on the tryline, etc...

Try for me. Happy to be proved wrong.

 

[crossref]

If you'd asked me -say - five years ago my understanding would have been "try".
.

didds

Five years ago it was a try.

But eighteen months ago they introduced a new Law, 13.3 , and now it isn't

What is it with rugby refs, that people wont beleive what's written in the Law Book unless they have also had an email about it

 

[crossref]

. Happy to be proved wrong.

Read Law 13 , that will make you happy

 

[L'irlandais]

But why do you feel so sure Law 13 applies ingoal? 13.3. talks about not tackling [LAWS]c Not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.[/LAWS]. Can’t be referring to play ingoal.

Law 21, specifically written for the ingoal area, leaves us none the wiser. Unless..
[LAWS]21.If a player is in touch or touch-in-goal, they can make a touch down or score a try by grounding the ball in in-goal provided they are not holding the ball.[/LAWS]

 

[crossref]

But why do you feel so sure Law 13 applies ingoal? 13.3. talks about not tackling [LAWS]c Not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.[/LAWS]. Can’t be referring to play ingoal.

Law 21, specifically written for the ingoal area, leaves us none the wiser. Unless..
[LAWS]21.If a player is in touch or touch-in-goal, they can make a touch down or score a try by grounding the ball in in-goal provided they are not holding the ball.[/LAWS]

Why wouldn't it ?
But if you like, see the definition of "the ground" .. definitions and Law 1

A player lying in TiG is definitely lying on "the ground"

 

[chbg]

If you'd asked me -say - five years ago my understanding would have been "try".

That may have been wrong but in my head it would have been right, no black and white .

But now - I've absolutely no idea. TBH the past couple of years have completely confused me wrt various things. I really don;t know now.

That's what rugbyrefs.com does to you … for better or worse.