RC issued in the bunker

[belladonna]

Actually I don't agree.
I believe the OF incident was misjudged by the official on the day and a YC should have been sufficient under current guidelines.

That's completely fine, we don't have to agree about the decision, and I hope we can agree to disagree

But isn't this illustrative of my point, though?

If the bunker system produced the wrong result (which may be true) - then what is it that's wrong with the bunker system? Is 8 minutes not enough? Do they not have all the angles? Is the referee not suffiently trained? (The first two were alluded to in the DC's judgement.)

Either way, WR set up the bunker system, so if it's not producing the correct result - in (one of?) it's first outings in unrestricted international age-groups too - then it's not only a very bad look for rugby, but something must be systemically wrong with the institution they themselves set up.

Or, perhaps the idea of having 3 non-referees make what is effectively a refereeing decision, perhaps isn't such a brilliant idea. (And we've seen this before with eg Freddie Stewart's RC also being downgraded to YC.)

I if wanted a piss-up in a brewery I certainly wouldn't trust WR to organise it

 

[Decorily]

In fairness I think it's irrelevant whether those making the decision are referees or not..... its down to 'training' and personal interpretation.

I'm a referee and so am 'trained' accordingly....my personal interpretation differed to that of the MO who made the decision.
As a referee I would have gone YC based on a single viewing of the video posted here (or maybe another thread ) and assuming this angle would have been my viewpoint.

 

[Decorily]

I if wanted a piss-up in a brewery I certainly wouldn't trust WR to organise it

Nor would I.

 

[Dickie E]

There's another insidious message here. Rugby has always relied on the tried & trusted tenet of "respect the referee's decision". If WR are ok with chucking that out the window then don't be surprised when that filters down to the weeds

 

[Balones]

Does it create precedence for future judgements? Will there be a reduction in RCs issued by referees at all levels? It will be interesting to look at the data at the end of the next season.

 

[Dickie E]

Or, perhaps the idea of having 3 non-referees make what is effectively a refereeing decision, perhaps isn't such a brilliant idea.

Maybe the 3 non-referees should be the bunker in the first place. Problem solved

 

[belladonna]

Maybe the 3 non-referees should be the bunker in the first place. Problem solved

Genius

 

[Balones]

i think much of the angst being shown against the decision is because it seems to be contrary to previous decisions we have experience of. Has it set a new standard for decision making in future? I can see this ‘excuse’ being used at weeds level quite a lot in future. At weeds level the word of the referee is regarded as the truth and proof of an incident. I am concerned about this position in future.

 

[Ian_Cook]

They must have taken his previous behaviour into account. Apparently, he's never been sent off.

(for the removal of doubt, that was sarcasm)

Seriously, how does this guy keep getting away with shoulder charges? I have looked at the video over and over, and I can't see how they conclude that the tiny push from George on Basham made any difference to the impact. Farrell came in with his shoulder leading, made no attempt to wrap arms, and contacted Basham's head with force. That is a red card all day long.

 

[Decorily]

They must have taken his previous behaviour into account. Apparently, he's never been sent off.

(for the removal of doubt, that was sarcasm)

Seriously, how does this guy keep getting away with shoulder charges? I have looked at the video over and over, and I can't see how they conclude that the tiny push from George on Basham made any difference to the impact. Farrell came in with his shoulder leading, made no attempt to wrap arms, and contacted Basham's head with force. That is a red card all day long.

Or not....depending on how you view it.

 

[shebeen]

Actually I don't agree.
I believe the OF incident was misjudged by the official on the day and a YC should have been sufficient under current guidelines.

I'll be dead honest here, this is the first comment/article/opinion from anyone anywhere that I have seen that agrees with this decision. Feel free to elaborate on how you come to that conclusion with "current guidelines". Given past incidents, most were expecting 6 weeks and then some hocus pocus to put in some sort of mitigation to get it down to maybe 3/4.

South Africans (obviously with our own biases) have long held the belief that there is a bias against SA rugby from WR and that there are two sets of rules out there. It's been dismissed as a conspiracy, as one should expect. The Farrell whitewash (and the Sexton wrist slap) doesn't really affect SA rugby at the RWC, but it does look like there is fishy business going on behind the scenes.

I find it hard to belief that this independent panel looked at this video and came up with their decision, the only rational thought process is they were given a phonecall and told what the result needed to be. Convince me otherwise.

 

[shebeen]

They must have taken his previous behaviour into account. Apparently, he's never been sent off.

(for the removal of doubt, that was sarcasm)

Seriously, how does this guy keep getting away with shoulder charges? I have looked at the video over and over, and I can't see how they conclude that the tiny push from George on Basham made any difference to the impact. Farrell came in with his shoulder leading, made no attempt to wrap arms, and contacted Basham's head with force. That is a red card all day long.

But OF has a great disciplanry record, as of yesterday he has never got a RC before in international rugby. (for the removal of doubt, that was also full sarcasm).

Just to throw more into the pot, from a very recent game involving an international captain.

He is a 2nd tackler coming in.
Why does he get RC and 3 weeks not get the "mitigation free pass"?

 

[Balones]

Out of of all the things considered by the disciplinary committee I doubt that the future reputation of the game and expectation for future conduct/safety, as well as referee respect was amongst them.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Isn’t it more correct to say 3 individuals representing WR ….

Do we know what WR thinks of the decision?

in fact do we know who WR actually is?

They reperesent WR in this situation

 

[didds]

so for my own clarity...
when the ref awards a YC in these games is that then reviewed by the TMO in ALL cases/YCs, or only if the ref says "here's a YC but review THIS card for possible RC"?

 

[didds]

There's another insidious message here. Rugby has always relied on the tried & trusted tenet of "respect the referee's decision". If WR are ok with chucking that out the window then don't be surprised when that filters down to the weeds

but wasn't the referee's decision in this Farrell case, by dint of the panel's decision, the correct one ie YC ?

 

[didds]

Why does he get RC and 3 weeks not get the "mitigation free pass"?

because they dont understand their own process/laws and make it up as they go along.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

As a referee I would have gone YC based on a single viewing of the video posted here (or maybe another thread ) and assuming this angle would have been my viewpoint.

The referee did too. BUT the Buker had the benefit of the extra angles. Is that not the point of it?

I watch some football and I often am asked: "Would you have sent him off?" I reply that I could not say as I'm not fully conversant with the laws of football. It is People who are that should be making the call not "experts" in Law (unrelated to the sport).

 

[didds]

Meanwhile, Im left with the feeling that a different ref/team of four/TMO on the day, and a different panel, would have come up with differing answers / results.... becasue of the points made in my post #37

Although Ive felt that for a very long time anyway.

 

[Dickie E]

but wasn't the referee's decision in this Farrell case, by dint of the panel's decision, the correct one ie YC ?

by "referee" I mean match official