Referee Abuse

[Big J]

5 separate cases this weekend in my region alone...4 youth matches and one senior.

I despair..........:rc:

 

[Simon Thomas]

Big J - chin up mate.

If you (or Tim / Nick / etc) want to discuss our experiences and successful strategy with CB in cutting it down happy to talk.

 

[Phil E]

This season I have personally decided to take a firm stance on appealing and dissent in my games. I feel these can be the thin end of the wedge that leads to abuse as players (and spectators) will keep pushing the boundary to see what they can get away with. If the line is drawn in their own backyard they can't push it very far.

Last season (and more so previous seasons) I have ignored things such as "knock on Sir", "forward" and the like, with the notion that they 'could' be ignored. Most of the time it was not a problem, but in a few games it got to the point where the chat had crossed the line and I realised that I had failed to deal with it early enough and it was now too little too late.

So this season it's hardball. "knock on!", "captain, we talked about this", please deal with it". "knock on", Peep, penalty. Escalated up from there.

U16 game Saturday. 3 penalties for one team, strong chat with the captain. Not another word, great game of rugby.

Sunday 2nd XV cup, warnings, penalties, culminating in a YC in the first half all for the same team (and mostly for the same player....SH...what a surprise). Second half they kept quiet, played rugby, got points on the board, but lost because they scored nothing in the first half due to arguing with me or each other most of the time. They thanked me after the game for a great second half of rugby.

Its taken a while, and it's against my nature to be so hard nosed, but it seems to be working. I am getting more respect, more rugby and enjoying myself.....so are the players once they get the message.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Welcome to the Honourable Society of Refereeing Bar Stewards :biggrin:

 

[ddjamo]

you're 100% on the mark phil. I'm with you in making a change. just again, another eval - my biggest ding - lenient on the back chat. I warn too often, finally get around to a pk, then maybe a yc later on. agree with you post. well written.

 

[TheBFG]

with you guys.

for the first time on sat i included it in my brief to capts, (ok so i was miked up and being assessed too!), but that said i don't remember 1 instance during the match of an appeal. U18's school match this week, lets see if it works then too :chin:

 

[The Fat]

Referees are at the end of the line when it comes to things like swearing, sledging, abuse of match officials.
You need to, in the first instance, attack the problem at the source.
I'm not sure how you guys operate over there but our referee association sent a memo to the zone administrator early in the season stating that practices such as swearing, sledging and abuse of match officials (practices that were becoming a problem late in the previous season), will not be tolerated and the referees have been instructed to have zero tolerance with such offences. The zone administrator then forwarded that memo to all clubs for distribution to all of their coaches.
Our club made sure that all coaches and players were made aware of the memo and the result was a very good rate of compliance as everyone knew it wouldn't be tolerated.

 

[Deeps]

I do a lot of midweek U18 games and take no crap from players at all. At the first sign of dissent I penalise but I will also enjoy a joke or a chat as the game goes on to show that I am enjoying it as much as I hope the players are.

I do get thanked for my stance by coaches afterwards, some of whom I suspect are not rugby trained and are only there as the token adult and themselves have to put up with back chat.

It's like tap kicks not leaving the hand; it's an annoying habit that many referees choose to ignore. Zap it straight away I reckon before they take these bad habits on to senior rugby.

 

[Simon Thomas]

I'm not sure how you guys operate over there but our referee association sent a memo to the zone administrator early in the season stating that practices such as swearing, sledging and abuse of match officials (practices that were becoming a problem late in the previous season), will not be tolerated and the referees have been instructed to have zero tolerance with such offences. The zone administrator then forwarded that memo to all clubs for distribution to all of their coaches.
Our club made sure that all coaches and players were made aware of the memo and the result was a very good rate of compliance as everyone knew it wouldn't be tolerated.

RFU / Societies and CBs (County management of rugby) have been doing a lot of preventative and re-active work in this area for the last 5 years.

RFU : Code of Conducts, Culture & Ethos study, Chief Executive Francis Baron's letter a few years ago, etc
CBs : warning letters to clubs, education sessions at clubs and disciplinary sanctions - zero tolerance, all abuse cases heard live not guilty by letter.
Societies : ditto, plus initiatives like Devon and Dorset& Wilts "spectator yellow cards" with Code of Conduct on them.

and I flagged up increasing player dissent and abuse to our Referee Development Manager last evening to bring up at next week's Referee Dept Management meeting. Major barrier to recruitment and a primary cause of low retention into season 2 for new ELRA graduates.


Unfortunately I see the growth of this behaviour as a reflection of an underlying break down in the fabric of our way of living & society in general - no respect, a "me" culture, no personal or group discipline, "I know best" attitude

 

[andyscott]

Unfortunately I see the growth of this behaviour as a reflection of an underlying break down in the fabric of our way of living & society in general - no respect, a "me" culture, no personal or group discipline, "I know best" attitude

Nail and head there Simon :wink:

Personally I think the key to ending it is with the disciplinary hearings putting sanctions on the clubs.
For me 2 ME verbal abuse of match official or 1 physical abuse within half a season, should reap the reward of lost points or ban the whole club for a week.
We all know so called mouthy clubs, so this must change from the chairmen down.

 

[ex-lucy]

disagree Andy, in my experience it is one or two individuals ... not a team or a club
ok, others follow suit once the one or two indivs start and get away with it .. but if you keep these 2 quiet then all should be ok.
blame.. door.. captains ... role models
not society in general
ST is not a socialogist

role models in this case could be soccer players who remonstrate and seem to get away with it.

 

[andyscott]

disagree Andy, in my experience it is one or two individuals ... not a team or a club
ok, others follow suit once the one or two indivs start and get away with it .. but if you keep these 2 quiet then all should be ok.

Or you could make the clubs keep them quiet

Infact you look at some areas, its the area not just the clubs. 2 clubs near me are renowned for gobbing off, this however is probably due to the large football influence in the area :chin: You can tell that by mentality of the suporters.

 

[The Fat]

Or you could make the clubs keep them quiet

Infact you look at some areas, its the area not just the clubs. 2 clubs near me are renowned for gobbing off, this however is probably due to the large football influence in the area :chin: You can tell that by mentality of the suporters.

Agree with you Andy.
What I have witnessed within our junior competition over the last 10 years is a gradual decline in the behavior of players and some coaches and definitely some spectators. I believe that is partly due to the comments ST made but also an influence of rugby league as many of our juniors play both codes. Shoulder charges and one on one confrontation at the breakdown coupled with shouts from the crowd of "kill him", "smash him", or "rip his head off" are league influences. Coaches and team mates high fiving players for shoulder charges etc, etc, etc.
We targeted these issues within our own club this year with fantastic results. We didn't have major issues to start with but we wanted to make a concerted effort to promote all that is good about rugby and make it as enjoyable as possible for everyone associated with the club.
The responsibility for player, coach and spectator behavior must start with the clubs.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Or you could make the clubs keep them quiet

Many clubs condone a gobshite by doing nothing until the forms go in. I know of a mini/junior chairman accompanying a serial gobberoffer to a hearing with "I can't believe you've never been to Rothwell before" - so how long had they known??

No forms = no action from many clubs. Ged em in if it's happening.

 

[SimonSmith]

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil....

 

[ballsie]

ok we all know there is a problem whats the solution, I tend to agree with the hang em high bridgade but until a club is made an example off it will carry on and get worse before it gets better.
policys and codes of conduct are useless bits of paper, unless the authorities back it up with action when they are breached
no questions asked

 

[Dixie]

Unfortunately I see the growth of this behaviour as a reflection of an underlying break down in the fabric of our way of living & society in general - ... "I know best" attitude

Don't understand, Simon. I DO know best -why is this problematic?

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Where do you think "You biased Cnut" ranks in the great scheme of things?

Needless to say I sent him off! :biggrin: :norc: :rc: :norc: :rc: :norc: :rc:

 

[Adam]

Where do you think "You biased Cnut" ranks in the great scheme of things?

Needless to say I sent him off! :biggrin: :norc: :rc: :norc: :rc: :norc: :rc:

You said that was going to be an interesting game!

 

[andyscott]

Where do you think "You biased Cnut" ranks in the great scheme of things?

Needless to say I sent him off! :biggrin: :norc: :rc: :norc: :rc: :norc: :rc:

Did you say excuse me, i have been equally shite for both teams, you can now watch that from the club house