RWC RC counter

[Volun-selected]

I thijnhk you were right CR.

How one earth some of these bunkered yellows havent been reds, especially based on implementations previously, defeats me.
The whole kit and kaboodle now has lost any credibility, and frabkly "point".
If the law is there to encourage players to NOT tackle near the head - it now makes little difference, so carry on and just at woprst get a yellow

[devils advocate hat on] Was it ever really about enforcing RC consistency? Or just about speeding up the game to make The Product more attractive/less boring for the casual viewer?[hat off]

 

[crossref]

i think the bunker system itself is well intentioned - - and has a lot going for it

- lets us get on with the game
- removes the emotional pressure of making the decision in public, with 80,000 people yelling 'ooh!' at every replay
- gives more time for decision making - eight minutes! All time pressure gone
- more consistency of decision making across games

well - that last one I don't think we got. Perhaps they would have benefited from fewer bunker staff, my understanding is that all 12 of them did turns)

 

[didds]

[devils advocate hat on] Was it ever really about enforcing RC consistency? Or just about speeding up the game to make The Product more attractive/less boring for the casual viewer?[hat off]

wrt buunker - about moving the game on (and i think that was right)
WRT yellows/reds for huge head smashes... see my previous points. That wold be happening whether TMO+Ref long chats, or a bunker presumably.

 

[didds]

i think the bunker system itself is well intentioned - - and has a lot going for it

- lets us get on with the game
- removes the emotional pressure of making the decision in public, with 80,000 people yelling 'ooh!' at every replay
- gives more time for decision making - eight minutes! All time pressure gone
- more consistency of decision making across games

well - that last one I don't think we got. Perhaps they would have benefited from fewer bunker staff, my understanding is that all 12 of them did turns)

as I've just intimated to Volun-selected the YC/RC decisions are outwit the bunker system. They would be the same presumably whether it was bunker or TMO+ref chats.

 

[crossref]

as I've just intimated to Volun-selected the YC/RC decisions are outwit the bunker system. They would be the same presumably whether it was bunker or TMO+ref chats.

probably easier for WR to manage the bunker --- as the bunker is secret they can have more frank conversations about protocol, and policy that aren't possible on screen

 

[crossref]

Interesting article here by Paul Smith

Ref Watch: Wayne Barnes in a two horse race

Quarter-final weekend saw Wayne Barnes move into pole position to referee the 2023 World Cup final through a combination of events...

www.rugbypass.com

The interesting quote is


A change of emphasis

I have mixed feelings about this. While Dickson and his team have used common sense and factored the clear lack of intent into judging this ‘a rugby incident’, critics could ask if this is consistent with how similar head contact has been handled throughout the World Cup to date


And always remember, RugbyPass is owned by World Rugby

 

[BikingBud]

Interesting article here by Paul Smith

Ref Watch: Wayne Barnes in a two horse race

Quarter-final weekend saw Wayne Barnes move into pole position to referee the 2023 World Cup final through a combination of events...

www.rugbypass.com

The interesting quote is


A change of emphasis

I have mixed feelings about this. While Dickson and his team have used common sense and factored the clear lack of intent into judging this ‘a rugby incident’, critics could ask if this is consistent with how similar head contact has been handled throughout the World Cup to date


And always remember, RugbyPass is owned by World Rugby

Interesting in the context of the other thread:

The first of these on the stroke of half-time saw Wales wing Josh Adams hit Cubelli late and high but without much force. Dickson determined Adams made an attempt to wrap and described it as “a cheap shot” for which he gave Argentina a penalty which they duly turned into three points.

In my opinion Adams can count himself fortunate not to see yellow – especially once the officials have determined he had made a cynical and unnecessary contact.

 

[crossref]

And Estebeth today. In the first threes weeks of the tournament that would have been a RC

Something happened

 

[SimonSmith]

Interesting article here by Paul Smith

Ref Watch: Wayne Barnes in a two horse race

Quarter-final weekend saw Wayne Barnes move into pole position to referee the 2023 World Cup final through a combination of events...

www.rugbypass.com

The interesting quote is


A change of emphasis

I have mixed feelings about this. While Dickson and his team have used common sense and factored the clear lack of intent into judging this ‘a rugby incident’, critics could ask if this is consistent with how similar head contact has been handled throughout the World Cup to date


And always remember, RugbyPass is owned by World Rugby

I thought that was an exemplary piece of refereeing from KD. He asked the right questions and got to the right answer the right way.

I rather suspect, much like Rolland's red for Warburton, that this might be seminal moment we can all use: not all head contact is foul play.

 

[Volun-selected]

And Estebeth today. In the first threes weeks of the tournament that would have been a RC

Something happened

Another way of looking at this is too ask: Did the officials start off too aggressively and have now found the correct balance, or were they right to begin with and they are now being too lenient?

If the latter, then it becomes a question of whether that was a decision from within the officials to reduce their impact and make it less about the ref - or was it pressure from outside to keep their hands off The Product?

 

[Camquin]

The initial position was if there is foul play and head contact, there can be no mitigation.
Which is not at odds with not all head contact is foul play.
So a shoulder charge, or swinging arm, is clearly a penalty - and if there is head contact, then it is a card.
And at the start, it was an automatic red.
Now it seems that even when the commentators and viewers think stone-cold red, the bunker finds a butterfly clapped its wings.

I think it was possibly hard to expect players to change overnight in the highest pressure games.
But I think they have gone too far the other way.

I would like them to go back to the original position, after the world cup, and then keep it there.

 

[didds]

Post RWC... I am with Camquin but have a nagging thought...
IF RCs were an attempt to STOP head contact (ie a stick approach) it has manifestly failed. Because even at a time such as the first week of RWC, it was still happening.

Thus cards do0 NOT work as a deterrent whatsoever.
I don't have an answer either - and clearly WR is doing the right thing to reduce head contact. Its just that the stick isn't working.

didds

 

[BikingBud]

Still nothing to see here!

Player safety? Nope. Nothing to do with us!!

 

[crossref]

So the last RC was issued on 28th Sept .
- 7 RC in 26 games - which was WORSE than my pessimistic forecast above of 1 RC per 4 games.

On 1st October, watching several bunker reviews in Aus v Portugal I commented that WR seemed to have panicked, and adjusted the thresholds, and that we wouldn't see many more RC in the tournanment.

Since then
- No RC in 14 games.

Seriously : was I right? Did they make a change, and raise the bar ?

Or has behaviour suddeny changed and WR's approach been vindicated?

So still no RC since 28th Sept

 

[didds]

They make it up as they go along, and then make decisions in secret emails!

;-)

 

[BikingBud]

But Curry was bleeding again at the weekend there must be something he can be banned for!