Scotland v France scrums

[The Fat]

Anyone have the scrum stats from this game i.e. number of scrums awarded, completed, resets etc?

I watched this game through bleary eyes but awake enough to know that the scrums were let to collapse, reset, collapse, reset and so and so on.

At one reset the commentator says, "Let's hear what Glen Jackson has to say". The answer was, absolutely nothing.

I haven't had a chance to watch the game again but will when it gets shown on the box again.

Pretty sure Nigel Owens or Allain Roland would have had a couple of props in the bin and some form of compliance early on. I commented to my son at the 51 minute mark that in those first 11 minutes of the 2nd half, there must have been 6 or 7 scrums set. Allowing 1 minute per scrum, there wasn't a lot of rugby going on.

 

[SimonSmith]

The scrums were a shambles. Not for the first time GJ had a deer-in-the-headlights appearance about him. The commentators described his management as "passive" - I called it "shit"

Both sides were at it a bit, although I fancy (through thistle coloured lenses) the French were struggling. The binding was taking our LHP down and twisting him, and the presence of their flankers in our front row was so egregious that it was a simply laughable miss.

Put ins, even by Elite standards, were farcical. Laidlaw worked this out early on and was close to actually putting the ball into the second row.

However he does in the rest of the game, GJ knows nothing about scrummaging. To be fair to him, though, his use of the TMO on the Taylor try was application of sound judgment.

 

[Taff]

They were a mess; in fact I think Brian Moore commented on them a few times. There were French Flankers trying to hook the ball back, players hanging off with just a hand on the scrum etc etc. I'm not an international standard Ref, so if I could spot them, how come the Ref, ARs and TMO couldn't?

I've suggested this a couple of times and I still think it's a good idea. My bright idea is this: If / when a scrum collapses and it isn't obvious who collapsed it - penalise the prop with the shortest bind. This will ensure that props will try and get a longer bind than their opponents - which will miraculously prevent scrums collapsing in the first place.

 

[Phil E]

I think Brian Moore commented on them a few times..

Quelle surprise!

 

[TheBFG]

Glen Jackson with no "tools in the bag" to deal with players cocking around, I wonder why that is :chin:

 

[L'irlandais]

Scrum stats were as follows :
Scotland 9 (lost 2) Scrum put ins (lost) 1 (0) France
There were 8 penalties or free kicks at scrum time. Mostly went against the French.
Think the bloke counting resets stats gave up in the end, so no figure to hand.

- - - Updated - - -.

 

[bcm666]

Quelle surprise!

Yes, I did and you know why - because it keeps on happening. time and time and time again. Referees don't collapse scrums but they are the only people who have a whistle and saying 'sort it out fellas' is no solution.

This is a summary of the Scotland v France scrums -



Does anyone think this is good enough?

If more people commented on this totally dull state of affairs the commercial arm of World Rugby might start asking for changes. The game's progress will be slowed as a spectator sport and as a participation activity if this continues.

 

[4eyesbetter]

How are the TV ratings for the tournament doing? Ticket sales still good? If they're not dropping, where's the impetus to change?

 

[crossref]

Yes, I did and you know why - because it keeps on happening. time and time and time again. Referees don't collapse scrums but they are the only people who have a whistle and saying 'sort it out fellas' is no solution.

This is a summary of the Scotland v France scrums -

View attachment 3406

Does anyone think this is good enough?

If more people commented on this totally dull state of affairs the commercial arm of World Rugby might start asking for changes. The game's progress will be slowed as a spectator sport and as a participation activity if this continues.

I don't think that World Rugby are blind to the problem, I think they don't know what to do about it

 

[Pegleg]

I don't think that World Rugby are blind to the problem, I think they don't know what to do about it

Sadly this is true. Those charged with running our game don't know what to do.

They could consult the right people but they seem reluctant to do so.

 

[Pegleg]

How are the TV ratings for the tournament doing? Ticket sales still good? If they're not dropping, where's the impetus to change?

Short term attitude. People will turn off and then you've lost them. Already I'm seeing people turning away who've watched for years. Many "rugby people" have turned away from going to live internationals. They come in to Cardiff and "watch" in the pub / club. By "watch" I mean get bladdered while the game is on the big screen. They look up from time to time to check what is happening.
People have rugby parties at their houses but not much watching is going on. It is all about the booze and the food.

THe problem is that when the next fad comes along rugby will lose these folk.

 

[Rich_NL]

Sadly this is true. Those charged with running our game don't know what to do.

They could consult the right people but they seem reluctant to do so.

Who do they consult to find out who the right people are?

It's generally the props who control the success of a scrum, and if the scrum disappears/changes significantly, it's the props who'll be first out of a job. But while there are twice as many P/FKs coming out of scrums as used balls, the short-term benefits outweigh the bigger picture. You pay players to win matches, not to promote the future welfare of the game.

 

[crossref]

Many "rugby people" have turned away from going to live internationals. They come in to Cardiff and "watch" in the pub / club. By "watch" I mean get bladdered while the game is on the big screen. They look up from time to time to check what is happening.
People have rugby parties at their houses but not much watching is going on. It is all about the booze and the food.

.

given that the games themselves continue to play to full houses, who are paying a lot of money for tickets (>£100 I paid on Sat :-( ) , all this sounds like rugby has never been more popular!

 

[Pegleg]

They "day out" is popular (certainly around here). Who's to say that will continue if the next fad comes along? Speak to most of the Pink Cowboy hatted Welsh "supporters" and all they know is "Give it to Shane" (and he's been retired for a few years now!) and "As long as we beat England".

The patient is alive but is not in a good state. Short term everything is fine. But people are going to wake up and stop paying £80+ for a ticket when £45 of that is to watch reset scrums!

The corporates will get bored and move on to something else in time. It is only "When?" and not "If".

 

[crossref]

Shane has retired ?????

Anyway, I think the numbers are that rugby is getting more popular to watch.

but I do agree that quicker scrums that produce fewer FK and PK would improve the game. but how to achieve that?
We want the whistle to go less often -- but I am not sure that the answer is in the referees - the only power the ref has is to blow the whistle.

 

[Phil E]

Short term attitude. People will turn off and then you've lost them. Already I'm seeing people turning away who've watched for years. Many "rugby people" have turned away from going to live internationals. They come in to Cardiff and "watch" in the pub / club. By "watch" I mean get bladdered while the game is on the big screen. They look up from time to time to check what is happening.
People have rugby parties at their houses but not much watching is going on. It is all about the booze and the food.

THe problem is that when the next fad comes along rugby will lose these folk.

Maybe this is a Welsh thing?
Your description is certainly not what I see at Twickenham and in pubs and houses where I watch rugby.

 

[didds]

I think they don't know what to do about it

If they are so devoid oif ideas then why not take advice AND ACT UPON IT from soemone that has some solid advice. Brian for starters.

I'll more than happily bow to his superior knowledge etc but it seems to me a starting point of

* insisting on legal binds
* insisting on straight put ins

and penalisng and if necessary carding for persistent offending might go a long way towards a solution.

The TMO could be involved in this process where available if it is felt ARs and refs are too busy checking everything else.

That this is seemingly too difficult a concept for WR rather questions exactlky what they are capable of organising?

A few years ago there was a Radio5 (?) program with BCM666 and other renowned ex-front rows, that John Jeffries basically poo-pooed on air.

Think this is it.

Meanwhile - keep up the good work Brian.



didds

 

[didds]

Short term attitude. People will turn off and then you've lost them. .

My boss is a big football fan.

He asked me yesterday about the scrums in the 6N games he watched at the weekend - watched as a general sports fan with no great understanding of rugby union. He has been to a Wasps game with his son recently, so he isn;t averse to maybe enjoying rugby union. Without bending to the whims of occassional supporters, nonetheless if RU is interested in keeping this level of supporter that may become more involved over time, then it has to ensure it doesn't turn them off and they instead go and watch monster truck racing on "Hick TV 4" or whatever. And making scrums last less than 90 seconds a time without several silly arse resets is a starting point. As he said why is he going to go and spend £40 on a ticket for £8-£10 of that being spent watching a bunch of blokes fall over repeatedly.

Its seemingly agreed that in the community game these issues do not exist... and I accept players are not as muscled up as the pros but the power remains relative - and I don;t perceive its the power aspect that causes today's resets. Its illegalities and arsing about.

didds

 

[crossref]

instead go and watch monster truck racing on "Hick TV 4" or whatever.

the RFU have applied to hold two monster truck racing events at Twickenham, perhaps they are anticipating the trend!

 

[DocY]

I wouldn't be averse to seeing (or hearing) the TMO have a quick word in the ref's ear if he sees something on the far side of the scrum. A quick "white lost his bind" or "blue dropped his knee" for the ref to act upon if he hasn't seen anything his side. Definitely no replays though!

How much is it down to the attitude of the players, though? They see it as an opportunity to win a penalty (first and foremost, I suspect) so how about reducing nearly all scrum offences to FKs?

The "use it now" when the ball is at the 8's feet is a step in the right direction (though isn't always applied very well), but only until coaches start teaching players to try to win the penalty sooner!