Scrum advantage

[ckuxmann]

Rugby League

If a team were to knock the ball on before time expires, with the opposition picking it up, playing past time expired only to go knock it on down-field, not gaining any advantage. Do we go back for the scrum?

Thanks
Cody

 

[menace]

The standard over here in Oz, is that pretty much once the oppo picks up the ball and takes a step past where the ball was knocked on the advantage is gained!

 

[didds]

which would seem fair in RU as well... territorial advantage made for a minor "infringement".

didds

 

[4eyesbetter]

The situation is slightly more complicated than it might appear at first, because this year we've adopted a law saying that advantage from a knock-on hasn't been taken until you call zero tackle for the non-offending team. If there's some reason not to do that, then by definition there is no advantage and you have to go back for the restart.

What this means in principle is that a lot of teams are getting possession from a knock-on and immediately kicking and chasing, or spinning the ball wide quickly, and we're ending up with very prolonged knock-on advantages (and good luck working out where to go back to, 30 seconds and 50 metres later). Great fun, excellent for the spectators, but a bit hair-raising to referee.

So it's not beyond the realm of possibility that you could have a knock-on with 20 seconds to go (or, put another way, enough time left that, had you blown up immediately, they could have got 7 players and a football in position quickly enough to get time off and have a last play from the scrum base), the non-offending team (who of course are two or four points behind) spin it wide to West and go round the houses and there's three kicks and ten offloads and the ball eventually finishes by going dead in-goal.

(I still think that, in the absence of a clarification from upstairs, the answer is to end the half, but it's worth having a line of some sort ready to use in case someone complains about it.)

 

[RLRef1984]

In RL especially Pro games if a scrum is awarded in the dying moments of a half but the ball is not put in the scrum before time expires then the game ends

 

[leaguerefaus]

Pretty simple question tbh, I don't know why everyone is making it so complicated. The scrum has to be fed before the siren sounds. If it hasn't been fed and the siren goes, call fulltime. The only time you may feed a scrum after the siren is if it has already been fed and you need to reset it for some reason.

 

[pwhaling]

Pretty simple question tbh, I don't know why everyone is making it so complicated. The scrum has to be fed before the siren sounds. If it hasn't been fed and the siren goes, call fulltime. The only time you may feed a scrum after the siren is if it has already been fed and you need to reset it for some reason.

I don't know much about league(so this might be a dumb question) but is there a penalty or something for a team intentionally taking a long time to set the scrum to end the game?

 

[damo]

I don't know much about league(so this might be a dumb question) but is there a penalty or something for a team intentionally taking a long time to set the scrum to end the game?

If one team gets 6 players packed and set up all ready to go the ref blows time off. You have to use these 6 players in the scrum in those positions, but in league this doesn't make much difference.

So not a silly question - but one that the lawmakers had considered in advance.

 

[ckuxmann]

Pretty simple question tbh, I don't know why everyone is making it so complicated. The scrum has to be fed before the siren sounds. If it hasn't been fed and the siren goes, call fulltime. The only time you may feed a scrum after the siren is if it has already been fed and you need to reset it for some reason.

It's just this whole "free play" thing in the UK off a knock on, you could hypothetically be playing for about 30-40 seconds before you come back for the scrum. assume the knock-on happened at 39:20 and we played on the free play and they didn't get the ball dead till after full time, the "free play" doesn't exactly look good.

On a separate note if a team were to gain the free play on there 10m line run 90m and force a drop out, I'd assume the drop out would be more advantageous, but what would you do? I'd ask the question of what the captain wants i think, but there really isn't a precedent.

On a side note I really want to see this free play gone, I'd go for something like a union advantage; go a few meters and then call advantage over.

 

[4eyesbetter]

I like it as a spectator. Pain in the arse to referee sometimes, but it really opens the door for something exciting to happen and a team to really change the momentum of the game quickly; but at the same time the free play doesn't become a free try or a free 50 metres just by default because it exists, you still need a bit of skill and a bit of luck to turn it into something useful.

 

[leaguerefaus]

If one team gets 6 players packed and set up all ready to go the ref blows time off. You have to use these 6 players in the scrum in those positions, but in league this doesn't make much difference.

So not a silly question - but one that the lawmakers had considered in advance.

Blowing time off once the scrum is packed is an NRL/International thing and is not to be done at the lower levels. Penalise for time wasting at a scrum just as you would at a goalline dropout, kickoff etc.

 

[Robert Burns]

Welcome Leaguerefaus.

Good to see a few more of our 13 man brothers on the site.

 

[ckuxmann]

Blowing time off once the scrum is packed is an NRL/International thing and is not to be done at the lower levels. Penalise for time wasting at a scrum just as you would at a goalline dropout, kickoff etc.

It's really odd how much the UK/AUS RL deviate. In the UK it's completely acceptable to blow time off at a packed scrum, or kick-off at the lower levels.

 

[leaguerefaus]

It's really odd how much the UK/AUS RL deviate. In the UK it's completely acceptable to blow time off at a packed scrum, or kick-off at the lower levels.

My mistake well mate! Over here in Aus we don't like to work overtime :aus:

 

[ckuxmann]

My mistake well mate! Over here in Aus we don't like to work overtime :aus:

I like your thinking

 

[bodybyvi]

normally in my view it seems fair to me. but not in the field to see only.

 

[leaguerefaus]

Rugby League

If a team were to knock the ball on before time expires, with the opposition picking it up, playing past time expired only to go knock it on down-field, not gaining any advantage. Do we go back for the scrum?

Thanks
Cody

To properly answer your question with reference to the International Laws of the Game - Section 7: Timekeeping - "End of play: If time expires in either half when the ball is out of play or a player in possession has been tackled and the ball has not been played the referee shall immediately blow his whistle to terminate play." Further, in the notes of that section, "Scrum: If a scrum has been set and fed before time expires play shall continue until a player in possession is tackled or the ball goes out of play."

So no, do not pack a scrum - terminate the game.