Scrum half has ball in hand

Browner

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I was deliberately distinguishing a scrum half simply taking his time in deciding when to play the ball ("Use it") from the one who puts his hands on the ball and then delays. The latter goes beyond the latitude that we allow. It is therefore the PK offence of handling in the ruck. If he keeps doing it he should certainly be penalised.

I'm against the Hands in the ruck PK for his, only because handling in the ruck is now so widespread [and accepted & seen by all viewers & wanted by referees/coaches ] that this subject needs clear management & verbal guidance IMO.

If I consider the ball is 'playable' then....'Use it' puts everyone on notice - and usually results in delays ending promptly.

Otherwise
Q? "what about their handling in the last ruck Sir?"
... it's a different type of handling !

Q? "how is it different?"
.... it's after the contest for the ball has already been decided

Q? "but didn't our SH handle it after the same 'contest was decided'... "
.... yes he did, but he was delaying

Q? which law is 'delaying' sir?
.... uh, err, ..... PK for questioning me, because i can't give you an answer !!
 
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RobLev

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I'm against the Hands in the ruck PK for his, only because handling in the ruck is now so widespread [and accepted & seen by all viewers & wanted by referees/coaches ] that this subject needs clear management & verbal guidance IMO.

If I consider the ball is 'playable' then....'Use it' puts everyone on notice - and usually results in delays ending promptly.

Otherwise
Q? "what about their handling in the last ruck Sir?"
... it's a different type of handling !

Q? "how is it different?"
...

...their SH was handling it in the process of getting the ball out of the ruck; yours was poncing around with no intention of taking it out of the ruck until he'd drawn a penalty. And back 10, please.
 

didds

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ask me these questions in the bar. meanwhile 10 metres back, its a PK to your opposition.

surely?

didds
 

Browner

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& there was me thinking we needed captains 'on board' !

to me, it's more C&O to everyone, & that's got to be helpful.
 
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OB..


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The onus is on the team that has won the ball to play it properly (ie within the confines of what we allow). They get differing advice from different referees - some say "two hands on is out".

You can therefore get this situation: scrum half sees the ball is available, puts his hands on it but then has a look around (thinking "ball is not out yet"). The opposing flanker thinks "two hands .." and tackles him. Do you penalise the flanker? Scrum half?

Stop play and remind both players of what is allowed and what is not. That includes reminding the scrum half that if he can take the ball out of the ruck, he must not delay in doing so. If he does it again and you shout "Use it", you have given him extra latitude, and he may well wait for you to shout in future. You are then locked in to instructing him. Much better to make it his responsibility to clear the ball as fast as he reasonably can once he touches it.
 

The Fat


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This is simple.
Ball is out when it is out! i.e. it is clear of bodies and SH is then fair game. If ball is at the back and available, SH needs to have made his decision as to what he is going to do with it when he picks it up. I will not allow him to keep hands on the ball, looking around / pissing about if the ball is available. If he does it once, warn him. If he does it again, PK him. He'll learn fast.
 

Browner

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The onus is on the team that has won the ball to play it properly (ie within the confines of what we allow). They get differing advice from different referees - some say "two hands on is out".

You can therefore get this situation: scrum half sees the ball is available, puts his hands on it but then has a look around (thinking "ball is not out yet"). The opposing flanker thinks "two hands .." and tackles him. Do you penalise the flanker? Scrum half?

Stop play and remind both players of what is allowed and what is not. That includes reminding the scrum half that if he can take the ball out of the ruck, he must not delay in doing so. If he does it again and you shout "Use it", you have given him extra latitude, and he may well wait for you to shout in future. You are then locked in to instructing him. Much better to make it his responsibility to clear the ball as fast as he reasonably can once he touches it.

Hands-on or 'removed' is always clarified in my briefing, so there is never that doubt (I suspect its the single most common question pre-match! )

If you don't remove the ball soonish SH I'll assume its coz you can't , which must make it unplayable !

Trust me, its never an issue.
 
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