[Scrum] Scrum half in possession of the ball

[mcroker]

Other than to offside lines are there any restrictions at scrum time as to where the scrum half who’s team ARE in possession may stand.

ie could they move to position 10M away provided that they had one foot behind th ball?

 

[crossref]

If he wants to be 10m away he has to be in line with the hindmost foot, or 5m back with everyone else

 

[ChrisR]

If he wants to be 10m away he has to be in line with the hindmost foot, or 5m back with everyone else

This only applies to the SH of the side NOT in possession.

 

[Rich_NL]

A player not participating in the scrum has to be 5m back...

 

[ChrisR]

A player not participating in the scrum has to be 5m back...

SHs are participating in the scrum. Similar to receivers participating in a line-out.

 

[OB..]

If he wants to be 10m away he has to be in line with the hindmost foot, or 5m back with everyone else

This only applies to the SH of the side NOT in possession.

[LAWS]9.29 [FONT=fs_blakeregular]Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team in possession has at least one foot level with or behind the ball.[/FONT]
9.30 Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team not in possession:

• • Takes up a position with both feet behind the ball and close to the scrum or
  • Permanently retires to a point on the offside line either at that team’s hindmost foot, or
  • Permanently retires at least five metres behind the hindmost foot.

[/LAWS]

 

[Rich_NL]

SHs are participating in the scrum. Similar to receivers participating in a line-out.

I know that's the meaning of the wording. But they aren't participating in the scrum if they're 10m away and lining up the opposition fly-half.

 

[Pinky]

Para c of 19.30 (third bullet of 9.30 above) is pointless as it has no effect as once the SH is behind the hindmost foot he is onside and can be 1m 2m 3m 4m or 5m behind that. The 5m behind for a s/h applies only where the side not putting in the ball decide not to have a scrum half. The side putting in the ball must have a scrum half and his offside line is one foot level with or behind the ball or the hindmost foot if he moves away from the scrum.

 

[Taff]

Other than to offside lines are there any restrictions at scrum time as to where the scrum half who’s team ARE in possession may stand. ie could they move to position 10M away provided that they had one foot behind th ball?

In addition to the 2 offside lines mentioned, isn't he meant to stay within 1m of the scrum if he's using the ball as another offside line? :chin:

 

[crossref]

It's a great question , which I got wrong in my answer.


Seems to me the scrum half can stand anywhere on the pitch , as long as he is behind the ball (with at least one foot)

So he is free to hover .. for instance in first receiver position the other side from the 10

 

[OB..]

It's a great question , which I got wrong in my answer.


Seems to me the scrum half can stand anywhere on the pitch , as long as he is behind the ball (with at least one foot)

[LAWS] ... both feet behind the ball and close to the scrum[/LAWS]

When they brought in the 5M law, they said that the winning s/h could move away from the scrum as long as he was behind the hindmost foot, and forgot to allow his opponent to shadow him (if he moved away he had to retire to the 5m line). This was quickly corrected.

 

[crossref]

OB that's the law for the scrum half NOT in possession.

The scrum half in possession seems to be able to go anywhere

 

[mcroker]

I’m pleased it’s not just me!

I also assumed both SH had to remain close to scrum or retreat to non-participating offside line, but my expectation didn’t seem to be reflected in law.

if anybody is interested my interest was piqued following the recent SH ‘dummy’ where the SH seems to be >1m from scrum before the scrum ends.

 

[seanaodh]

This is a great point. Had to scour the law book to make sure I wasn't missing anything but seems like the SH putting in the ball can go wherever he pleases as long as he stays behind the ball.

This seems like it could be usefully exploited. Pick from the 8, pass to SH who is standing a good bit away from the scrum in line with the hindmost foot and he then sets up an attacking move for the rest of the attacking backs. If this is the case, it's good to get that mental picture in mind so when it happens you know what's going on. Or am I missing something somewhere?

 

[ChrisR]

8 to 9 is common practice,

 

[OB..]

OB that's the law for the scrum half NOT in possession.

The scrum half in possession seems to be able to go anywhere

Exactly. That is why the law relating to his immediate opponent had to be changed.

 

[mcroker]

Just spotted this picture in the lawbook https://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=19, which does seem to suggest the SH of the team in possession must be behind the back foot 'when not playing the ball'.

 

[crossref]

Cool . Diagram takes precedence over text, I would say

 

[Taff]

Just spotted this picture in the lawbook https://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=19, which does seem to suggest the SH of the team in possession must be behind the back foot 'when not playing the ball'.

Exactly. I think we are over-complicating this gents, but for what it's worth this is what I think.

Perhaps "playing the ball" wasn't the best phrase they could have used because to me that implies that the SH is actually holding the ball. I reckon "Following the ball" would have been better wording.

If the SH is following the ball through the scrum, then the ball is his offside line. Both SHs have to stay close to the scrum, the SH for the team not in possession has to keep both feet behind the ball and the SH of the team in possession can straddle the offside line but can't have both feet in front of the ball.

If neither SH wants to follow the ball through the scrum, he can retire to the HMF and that offside line runs the width of the pitch. I don't think it's particularly complicated. :chin:

 

[crossref]

They should have a proper re write of the Laws to simplify thrm, and make sure they say what they mean ..