Scrum-half receiving ball at lineout

manager

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Forgive me - it's been a long time since I played sevens (or rugby for that matter). We used to use a lineout move where the forwards back-peddled and the hooker threw straight to an incoming scrum-half. Is this still allowed?
 

OB..


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There are no Sevens-specific variations to Law 19. The receiver cannot come into the line until the ball has left the thrower's hands. Until then he has to be 2 metres back.

Welcome to the forum. (I am intrigued that you joined almost 2 years ago, and this is your first post - but no problem. Keep them coming.)
 

manager

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Ah he'd have to be pretty quick then! Can this actually be achieved?

Yes I think I joined at the time the RFU forums suddenly disappeared into thin air.
 

Dixie


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Ah he'd have to be pretty quick then! Can this actually be achieved?
I think most of us take the view that it is unlikely that the receiver can join the line at numbers 1-4 (measured with a full 7-man lineout) without having jumped the gun. But if you manage to get Usain Bolt to play for you, you might buck that trend! Also, 7's refs tend to be a bit more lenient in my experience - it's worth trying it on in a non-kickable position early doors to see if you can get away with it.
 

Ciaran Trainor


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If you lob the throw it would be possible if the others in the Line out were right on the 15 line.
A legal way it could be done is if you are in the line and Peel forwards.
 

manager

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If you lob the throw it would be possible if the others in the Line out were right on the 15 line.
A legal way it could be done is if you are in the line and Peel forwards.

Yes a lob would do it...but it also relies on the opposition following your line's dummy movement to create the gap at the front. I'm talking 7's now. Thanks.
 

Davet

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NKW - quite ; for my money the US guidelines which I understand allow this move are correct if one takes the Law as writ, sadly the iRB seem to want to deny their own exception, and they have ruled against it...
 

crossref


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I don't understand this. If the video contradicts he written laws, shouldn't we take the written laws as correct?

After all the law book doesn't come with video
 

L'irlandais

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Sounds interesting. Which section is that? The link isn't taking me to the video.
Hi manager,

The IRFU requested a Ruling related to the lineout a few years ago.
See Clarification 9 2009 for details :
Q. Do the provisions of Law 19.8 (i) apply to Law 19.11 Exception 2?

Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
A. The provisions of Law 19.8(i) do apply to Exception 2 in Law 19.11 which means that a receiver cannot run into a gap in the lineout until the ball has left the hands of the player throwing in.
refer to Lawbook[laws]19.8 (i)
Where the receiver must stand. The receiver must stand at least 2 metres towards that player’s goal line from that player’s team-mates who are lineout players and between 5 and 15 metres from the touchline until the lineout begins.
Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line
Exception: The receiver may run into the gap and perform any of the actions available to any other player in the lineout. The receiver is liable to sanction for offences in the lineout as would be other players in the lineout.[/laws]Hope this clears up the issue.
 
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ChrisR

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Manager,

The laws allow players to change position so you can pull this stunt in one of two ways.

1. Have the back of the pod drop out of the LO so the SH can step into the LO at the front.

2. Simply have the back player drop and run to the front.

I'm not saying these are effective ploys but they stay within the law.
 

crossref


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L'irlandais:233882 said:
Sounds interesting. Which section is that? The link isn't taking me to the video.
Hi manager,

The IRFU requested a Ruling related to the lineout a few years ago.
See Clarification 9 2009 for details :
Q. Do the provisions of Law 19.8 (i) apply to Law 19.11 Exception 2?

Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
A. The provisions of Law 19.8(i) do apply to Exception 2 in Law 19.11 which means that a receiver cannot run into a gap in the lineout until the ball has left the hands of the player throwing in.
refer to Lawbook[laws]19.8 (i)
Where the receiver must stand. The receiver must stand at least 2 metres towards that player’s goal line from that player’s team-mates who are lineout players and between 5 and 15 metres from the touchline until the lineout begins.
Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line
Exception: The receiver may run into the gap and perform any of the actions available to any other player in the lineout. The receiver is liable to sanction for offences in the lineout as would be other players in the lineout.[/laws]Hope this clears up the issue.

I guess the law numbers have changed since then ,anyone have a 2009 law book ?
 

Not Kurt Weaver


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The IRFU requested a Ruling related to the lineout a few years ago.
See Clarification 9 2009 for details :
refer to Lawbook[laws]19.8 (i)

How do we know the clarification 9, 2009 is still valid? The 19.11 reference that held the exception has been relocated to 19.8e

It seems this clarification is obsolete despite being on irb website.

I find the receiver entering the lineout as no big deal (I'm in the US).
 

crossref


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Not Kurt Weaver:233899 said:
The IRFU requested a Ruling related to the lineout a few years ago.
See Clarification 9 2009 for details :
refer to Lawbook[laws]19.8 (i)

How do we know the clarification 9, 2009 is still valid? The 19.11 reference that held the exception has been relocated to 19.8e

It seems this clarification is obsolete despite being on irb website.

I find the receiver entering the lineout as no big deal (I'm in the US).

I am with this
The clarification relates to ambiguity in the 2009 version of law 19
Law 19 has now been rewritten , so supersedes the old clarification

The law makes it very clear that the receiver CAN join the line out

the video seems to conflict, so there is a mess

Seems to me you go with the written law.
 

Balones

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What creates the confusion is that the Law doesn't clarify exactly and clearly when the receiver can join the line. By being under the section which deals with forming the line would indicate that the receiver must join the line before the ball is released from the thrower. Peeling players cannot start moving until the ball has been thrown in. Hence front peels and the receiver joining towards the front is impossible unless the ball is lobbed to a ridiculous height.
 

Davet

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2009 - 19.11 provided 2 exceptions, exception 1 allowed a player not in the lineout to run forward and take a ball that was thrown beyond the 15 - in 2009 the timing was not specified, as whether the player could run forward:
a) before the ball is thrown
b) after the ball is thrown
c) only after the ball has gone beyond the 15

in the current law that anomaly is cleared up - 19.15.c specifies "after the ball has left the hands" of the thrower.

However the second exception is not so well treated in current law

(i)
Where the receiver must stand. The receiver must stand at least 2 metres towards that player’s goal line from that player’s team-mates who are lineout players and between 5 and 15 metres from the touchline until the lineout begins.

Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line

Exception: The receiver may run into the gap and perform any of the actions available to any other player in the lineout. The receiver is liable to sanction for offences in the lineout as would be other players in the lineout.

However given the Law specifies where the receiver must stand until the lineout begins, one wonders what the exception actually refers to. If it only applies after the lineout has begun then exactly what is being excepted?
 

Balones

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Davet
I think we've both identified the same problem.
 

Davet

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Agreed - though the main issue is that our intsructions from RFU via Society is that the ruling standsm- so that's what we do.

But - in my opinion (note I don't claim to be humble) - the ruling is asinine.
 
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