Scrum turnover

[didds]

a minute long genuinely contested scrummage would be exhausting...

didds

 

[Blindpugh]

As ST confirmed it was an Elite match with English Championship and Welsh Premiership professional packs going at one another. Prior to this Red had gained two penalties for scrum wheeling but on this occasion Blue front row managed to lock out and exchange referee awarded turnover.

My son has a good understanding of the laws but asked why referee had awarded scrum turnover? I said I would check with my learned colleagues around the world.

I never refereed at Elite level but my Society taught me to communicate with players to avoid confusion. I agree that ball had stopped and will refer him to law 20.4.e and suggest that he checks with referee at PMB what he will do if this happens in next game. He also needs to speak with his coaches and forwards so that they adapt to this interpretation of the law

Thanks everyone I have learned something new today for when I start Assessing Referees.

 

[menace]

I wouldn't know what to communicate if the ball was 'stuck fast' during an active scrum? What would you say? (We've already established 'use it' isn't really appropriate).

Perhaps 'you need to hook it?' Or
'Scrum stopped - need to move the ball *colour*'? :shrug:


I'm thinking this is one of those situations where you say nothing and wait, but when nothing then call it up.

I'd be really interested however to know what your son would want the ref to say to him and or pack to help them know they were running out of time to do something.

 

[didds]

If the ball isn't near a #8s feet after "a minute" whatever you call is redundant surely? It isn't going to get there in any meaningful timeframe whilst the danger of a collapse etc increases exponentially i wold have thought as severe fatigue sets in. And I doubt very much its being held nowhere near the #8's feet deliberately.



didds

 

[Womble]

"Are you guys going to push or what " worked for me !

 

[menace]

"Are you guys going to push or what " worked for me !

Thanks. I'll bank that one.

In the 'not to use' container. :hap::wink:
(at my level If I used it both FR would probably come over and push me on my ass and then say 'is that good enough for you......sir!)

 

[Pegleg]

As ST confirmed it was an Elite match with English Championship and Welsh Premiership professional packs going at one another.

A minor point, but a Welsh Premiership side would be semi pro and not proferssional.

 

[Blindpugh]

I'd be really interested however to know what your son would want the ref to say to him and or pack to help them know they were running out of time to do something.

From my experience of operating at the coal face I would advise my son to ask ref in PMB " Sir if you consider scrum has stopped and ball is not going to emerge will you call use it or signal turnover?"

 

[Dickie E]

From my experience of operating at the coal face I would advise my son to ask ref in PMB " Sir if you consider scrum has stopped and ball is not going to emerge will you call use it or signal turnover?"

to which the ref is likely to reply "son, I'll manage it based on what's in front of me"

 

[Blindpugh]

to which the ref is likely to reply "son, I'll manage it based on what's in front of me"

Yes sir but does that mean you will tell us to use it or signal turnover?

Anyway discussed this decision with RFU scrum coach yesterday and he agreed with referee's decision. As ex front row players we both agreed that hookers should be taught how to strike for the ball and get the bloody ball out of the scrum!:biggrin:

 

[Blindpugh]

A minor point, but a Welsh Premiership side would be semi pro and not proferssional.

For the benefit of our antipodean colleagues reading this post it was Cardiff Blues Select XV. Checked match day starting XV and they are all listed in Blues squad with Sam Warburton etc and I don't think any of those players are semi professional but happy to be corrected.

My understanding is that this season Welsh Regions are using British & Irish Cup to give younger squad players experience of a higher standard of rugby than Welsh Premiership.

 

[Balones]

I believe it varies by 'Select XV' and not all follow the Blues. The Dragons cast their net a little wider.

 

[Pegleg]

For the benefit of our antipodean colleagues reading this post it was Cardiff Blues Select XV. Checked match day starting XV and they are all listed in Blues squad with Sam Warburton etc and I don't think any of those players are semi professional but happy to be corrected.

My understanding is that this season Welsh Regions are using British & Irish Cup to give younger squad players experience of a higher standard of rugby than Welsh Premiership.

You are wron in your understanding. Some of these players are an academy contracts which are indeed "full time" but are more apprentice level that full. Others are in the wider "back up" squads. Made of a players who have little realistic chance to achieve full pro status and who go to their day jobs the rest of the time.

I believe it varies by 'Select XV' and not all follow the Blues. The Dragons cast their net a little wider.

I'm not too sure what that means . The second comment displays a total lack of knowledge of the Welsh scene sorry.
Ok let's explain it:

The Welsh sides in the B&I are selections from the Premiership sides within each region.

The Newport "region" calls on players from: The Semi pro premiership sides of Newport, Cross Keys, Ebbw Vale and Bedwas.

The Cardiff "region" calles on players from: Pontypridd and Cardiff's premiership sides.

The Ospreys "region" calls on players from: Swansea, Bridgend, Neath and Aberavon's Sides in the Semi pro Premiership.

The Scarlets "region" calls on players from: Carmarthen Quins, Llandovery and Llanelli's preremiership teams.

All the above are, as stated semi pro.

The net is cast over the premiership sides in each region no wider or narrower than that.

Some of these players are an academy contracts which are indeed "full time" but are more apprentice level that full.


Of course being a committee man with a Welsh Premiership side, what do I know about the make up?