Serious injury.

[Daftmedic]

Had the pleasure of refereeing a 2's game. Not very skillfull but good attitudes.

Blue 8 was tackled legally by white 12. Unfortunately Blue's neck hyper flexed and his chin hit Whites shoulder knocking Blue unconscious. Blue hit the ground on his back and was snoring(sign of compromised airway) Huge long peep on my whistle followed by a double peep for time off. I called for first Aid immediately whilst clearing the chaps airway. No first aid was present but there was a physio on white who is at my hospital. Once airway was sorted out I got the spectators to call 999. 20 mins later the chap was in an ambulance on the way to hospital.
Because of light issues I played 10 mins of first half with a short break and then the full 40 second half.
What has been bothering me is at what point do I stop being the referee and become the first responder?
i know it's a clubs responsibility to provide adequate first aid. But this incident surpassed "first Aid" and needed positive intervention. This is actually giving me restless nights wether I overstepped the mark from official to lifesaver. Please help

 

[TheBFG]

Sounds like you potenially saved the guys life? Where's your problem :clap:

 

[Toby Warren]

DM I assume you are medically qualified?

Why the sleepless nights?

In any situation like this the best qualified person surely helps the person in need? Surely you are not suggesting that you should do nothing 'because it's the clubs responsibly. .

I don't get involved in the treatment as I have very limited first aid skills therefore aren't the most qualified person.

Having said that as you are 'in charge' people automatically look to you to take a lead. In my case (and I had a nasty injury last week) it is a long loud blast of the whistle motion to the first aiders and I often crouch/kneel down besides the injured player. This give a very clear visual clue to all involved that the ref thinks it's serious to stop the game and show urgent concern as 99/100 this doesn't happen.

Sounds to me as if the player has a lot to be thankful for that you were the ref and needs to look at its first aid provision.

 

[leaguerefaus]

Quite frankly I wouldn't like someone called DaftMedic to be anywhere near me when I'm in the middle of a medical emergency!

There was a thread a few months back about when it's ok to touch players. The general consensus was to get their mouth out of mud/water, and clearing their airway was probably the only time we would/should touch players.

Edit: No need for some smart ass to mention the new scrum feed procedure

 

[Decorily]

If you are qualified/competent or the only person available/willing and help is urgently needed then get stuck in.


We can play rugby later!


Well done.

 

[Daftmedic]

It's the first time anything like that has happened to me on the pitch. Suppose it's just a hindsight thing you go over the incident and question if you managed it correctly. I've put in a report to society I just have this feeling that what if I wasn't there.

 

[Dixie]

Tony Spreadbury used to have these issues as a paramedic.

Broadly, your particular skills as a lifesaver trump your reservations as a referee. Blocked airway, convulsions etc in midfield, you are the closest medic to hand and you intervene. If they have resources to hand with your abilities, you step back as soon as the immediate danger has passed and their medic is on hand. If you are the only guy who knows what he's doing, you stick with it.

 

[FlipFlop]

Personally - the most qualified medical trained person takes charge.

That NORMALLY should mean the medical person provided by the club. But it could mean a spectator, or the referee, or a player..

3 Different occasions spring to mind when I have been reffing:
Game over here in Switzerland, guy dislocated his knee. We were calling for an ambulance, but luckily for the player a qualified orthopedic surgeon was in the crowd, and put the knee back in, unblocking the blood flow, and stopping further damage, and saved the guys knee. Not the person who was supposed to be in charge (ie not provided by the club, but certainly the most qualified to make decisions)

Game between 2 medical schools in the UK. Serious injury (but not life threatening). That was a (quite humerous) discussion amongst the players, as to who was the most senior medic present. Did the right branch of medicine out-rank title? And what about between hospitals? And was it better for the senior medic to treat, or to get a medical student to do it, overseen by the senior person. Again - the properly trained persons took charge.

The 3rd incident is very different. Had a neck/head injury in a game. No medics present. Players/coaches wanted to try and move the player to allow the game to continue. I have had (VERY) basic medical training, and intervened to prevent this happening. AS I result I took charge of the situation. Got an ambulance called, and remained in charge until they arrived. Paramedics fully supported the decision not to move the player, and took about 40min to get him off the pitch. (Player was okay, and would probably have been okay if moved, but who knows - certainly not the people who wanted to move him!)

So I think the point about getting involved is a standard one for all people to ask - am I the most qualified person to do so in the situation that presents itself?

So well done for getting involved, and saving a players life (Safety, Safety, Safety taken to an extreme!).

 

[crossref]

agree with the above.

Spreadbury did a talk I was at once, and he said only intervene lif life threatening, and he cited compromised airway as precisely the scenario most likely to call for him to intervene.

He then made the sensible point that in an emergency the referee, as referee actually has an important role to play - taking charge of the situation, making sure 999 has been called, sending for whatever first aid / blankets etc is available at the club, keeping people calm and so on: the reality is people will look to the referee to take a lead, and that's your job. If you get distracted by the medical treatment then you are neglecting your real - and important - role.

 

[Daftmedic]

The blue players were very grateful. It's really strange after 18 yrs doing emergency medicine and now 5 yrs of teaching service personnel in battlefield trauma this one has struck me as being a what happens if scenario. I suppose it's because my Isaiah bag of tricks was with my wife medicing my local rugby club and I didn't think of getting a small bag ready for refereeing. I've had a long talk with the good lady wife about it. She thinks my reservations stem from the fact I didn't in my eyes have adequate equipment I would of otherwise use in that situation if I came across something.
Lesson lernt on my part. I will carry some items that could be useful in that situation. Sod's law now it won't happen again.
Cheers guys for a different perspective on this, always great to bounce things off other people.
Spank you.

 

[andyscott]

I am usually the most highly qualified medical person at my games.

I will only intervene in the most serious of injuries, if there is no one else available. Even a sports therapist I will let crack on, unless they ask for help. I will not deal with anything unless immediately life threatening.

However there are no boundaries, if you can help and you feel you should do then crack on.

 

[Blackberry]

Just to be clear, as I understand it, we as referees have no more status than anyone else on the pitch, meaning there is no expectation on us to take charge.

 

[crossref]

Just to be clear, as I understand it, we as referees have no more status than anyone else on the pitch, meaning there is no expectation on us to take charge.

I think technically that is completely correct, but in practice the referee is 'in charge' on the pitch and people instinctively look to the referee to take a lead.

 

[Wedgie]

On more than one occasion when I have been playing and reffing the most medically competent person present, who (amongst other things) has put my dislocated finger back in, put in stitches and recognised a heart attack, has been the local vet!

But then, we are a farming area and on several occasions have been accused of playing "agricultural rugby"

 

[crossref]

who (amongst other things) has put my dislocated finger back in, put in stitches and recognised a heart attack, has been the local vet!

now stop moaning and hold still --- or I'll take your temperature.

 

[OB..]

now stop moaning and hold still --- or I'll take your temperature.

"With a daffodil?" (Hattie Jacques)

 

[Browner]

Game between 2 medical schools in the UK. Serious injury (but not life threatening). That was a (quite humerous) discussion amongst the players, as to who was the most senior medic present. Did the right branch of medicine out-rank title? And what about between hospitals? And was it better for the senior medic to treat, or to get a medical student to do it, overseen by the senior person.

Whatever the conclusion of the debate, ask for a 2nd opinion ! maybe it was simply a Humerus discussion ???