Should I referee my son's age group?

[Wolrabs]

Hi,

I reffed my son's team on the weekend and they happened to lose. They had been unbeaten all season and lost this last game.

At the end I shook hands with the opposition who thanked me for the game. With the exception of one player from my son's team no one bothered to do this. The one lad who bothered stated that if I was there next year, he wouldn't be. Didn't say much to that really. He later came over and apologized for his comments which I accepted.

All through the game I could hear comments from the side and I was stupid enough to answer some of them. I didn't think I'd had a bad game which my father in law confirmed that night.

During the game I was constantly being asked how long to go, and this got a little cross and I threatened a yellow card for the next person to ask. No more than a minute later one of the kids did and I was 'talked' out of any penalty as the player in question claimed not to have heard me. Was this a mistake? Probably.

I had two players, one from each side, to have bloody noses and I stopped the game to get them seen to. The elicited groans/comments from the onlookers. I thought we were supposed to be above that sort of thing.

I was deflated after this game and I am in two minds as to whether I will referee the team next year. After chatting to 'er indoors, she reckons I shouldn't.

Apologies for the rant!

 

[Wedgie]

We all have bad days in the office (whether we were right or not.... ). I have been in that position and threatened (and meant!) that I would never ref my eldest's team again, but 6 months later I was back in the saddle and have enjoyed every match since then. Talk it through with your son - hopefully he will give you the inside view of what was spoken about in the changing room afterwards - even if it is the edited high(/low)lights it may give you some pointers. Plus - now you have an enforced break of at least 4 months and you may feel differently then......

 

[Stuartg]

Hi,

I reffed my son's team on the weekend and they happened to lose. They had been unbeaten all season and lost this last game.

At the end I shook hands with the opposition who thanked me for the game. With the exception of one player from my son's team no one bothered to do this. The one lad who bothered stated that if I was there next year, he wouldn't be. Didn't say much to that really. He later came over and apologized for his comments which I accepted.

All through the game I could hear comments from the side and I was stupid enough to answer some of them. I didn't think I'd had a bad game which my father in law confirmed that night.

During the game I was constantly being asked how long to go, and this got a little cross and I threatened a yellow card for the next person to ask. No more than a minute later one of the kids did and I was 'talked' out of any penalty as the player in question claimed not to have heard me. Was this a mistake? Probably.

I had two players, one from each side, to have bloody noses and I stopped the game to get them seen to. The elicited groans/comments from the onlookers. I thought we were supposed to be above that sort of thing.

I was deflated after this game and I am in two minds as to whether I will referee the team next year. After chatting to 'er indoors, she reckons I shouldn't.

Apologies for the rant!

Your yellow card threat was over the top. Just ignore the question about the time or answer it with something like "not long" "a while yet" "the calculation's beyond me". You may need to grow a thicker hide over the summer! But do go out there and carry on, learn from this episode.

 

[Treadmore]

Your yellow card threat was over the top. Just ignore the question about the time or answer it with something like "not long" "a while yet" "the calculation's beyond me". You may need to grow a thicker hide over the summer! But do go out there and carry on, learn from this episode.

I agree with that.


Is the problem for you because it involves your son? And you're trying too hard not to be biased? Or just the age group?

I ref my son's age group but coach them also (not lead coach) - at least they understand how I read the game! Your experience sounds like this was the first time you've refereed for them. If so, maybe you could join in their training sessions to develop a rapport with them? We usually have at least 20-30mins of a game in training, which I referee. All their moaning at me happens in training - they're as good as gold in a match.:biggrin:

 

[4eyesbetter]

Can't speak to the wider question, but:

During the game I was constantly being asked how long to go, and this got a little cross and I threatened a yellow card for the next person to ask.

Hopefully you now realise why making sincere threats is a really, really, really bad idea...

No more than a minute later one of the kids did and I was 'talked' out of any penalty as the player in question claimed not to have heard me. Was this a mistake? Probably.

...because you've now lost your flexibility to follow through or not as you see fit. If a good reason not to follow through on the caution comes up, you're now trapped between a rock and a hard place - deal with it as you said and look pedantic/officious, or let it slide and look weak. (I've made an assumption here that you've given a direct threat because of how you've worded this; if not, I apologise.)

The thought also occurs that the caution might have been given informally, rather than "time off, skipper please, sort (issue) out or I may have to take further action, I'll give you a moment to pass that message on." This now makes it the captain's problem to get compliance for you, and it removes "oh, but I didn't hear..." as an excuse; it's not your problem that the captain didn't do as you asked.

 

[FightOrFlight]

It sounds to me as if you are letting the run of the mill and unfortunately all too common happenings at a rugby games get to you. Over here we are suffering an influx of soccer and GAA attitudes towards refs from both players and spectators.

Part of refereeing well is being confident in the decisions you make, being confident in the ones you don't and looking confident in the ones you don't make but really should have! Shove the people on the sidelines and what they say. Most of them are parents or drag alongs who know one or 2 rules and apply them to every situation. I had a guy last week in a 19s game who shouted "high tackle" at almost every tackle in the game until his son told him to zip it...just ignore them and get on with the game. One of the ones you see a lot is the resets at the scrums at underage. If it goes 45 degrees a few times people get upset at the slow down and then start shouting on to "get on with it ref" it's par for the course really.

As a referee every game has a winner and every game has a loser...even if it's a draw. When I am assigned a game between a strong team and a weak team I am concious of the fact the weaker team may well kick off(on and off the pitch) if they go behind. Some games like that are harder than top of the table games or cup finals. Young players rarely have their mistakes highlighted outright by a coach....in many cases they will say very little of substance about the team's negative play or aspects so a kid of 14/15 will blame the easy target and that's you.

On the issue of your yellow card threat that's something you dont need to do really. Kids will always ask usually because they are tired. I find if I am getting persistent "how long sir?(s)" at U15s and below I give them a chance to just stop for a minute and grab a breath. Above U17s I will only tell a captain and then tell anyone else to ask him!

 

[andyscott]

Next time you get comments (that are unacceptable) from the side line call the game off. Next time you referee they WILL be quiet.

As for time left, yeah tell them not to ask, if they continue, penalise then YC, they have to learn that your word goes.

I dont do junior games as the hassle outweighs the benefits. Its simple if you stop enjoying doing some aspects of sport, then give it up or it will affect your personal life. It slowly eats away.

 

[Na Madrai]

The only comments from the touchlines should be to encourage the spectators' side and to applaud good play from both sides. Any derogatory comments or attempts to referee from the touchline should be stamped on immediately. Call the home team coach onto the field and in a clear voice inform him that if there is another comment, you will have him clear the touchlines - and if there is another comment, follow through your threat. Use the words 'Health and safety' - we are all now so used to this phase as an excuse for destroying almost anything that it is now very effective. If the comments continue, call off the game.

I realise that a losing side could engineer a premature end to the match in this manner but that is a decision for the blazers - we must be vigilant in preventing the game sinking to the level of wendyball.

I once allowed comments to continue in a colts' match and it resulted in a life changing injury to alad under my supervision so stamp on it immediately!

NM

 

[crossref]

wolrabs - you don't say how old they are, how often your ref them, and how involved you are in the team generally (like are you one of the coaches?).

the closer you are to the team and the coaches, the harder it is to ref them. Like are you an assistant coach? That sets up a tricky dynamic with the lead coach when you come to ref, in the coaching field his ideas and views go, but now for 90 mins you are in charge. It's tricky. Also if he's a coach who likes to play close to the wire, and challenge a ref, clearly that's not easy.

and how well do the kids know you -- if you are very close to them week in week out, and having a laugh etc, it can be tricky for them to suddenly see you as a ref. Or are you an absent Dad whom they never see unless you ref them, in which case it doesn't matter much.

In general the more they know you in other roles and contexts, the harder it is to convincingly wear the ref hat .

where does your son play? eg if he's scrum half it's trickier than if he's outside centre.

you say

I reffed my son's team on the weekend and they happened to lose. They had been unbeaten all season and lost this last game.

and perhaps that sounds like a specific game that would have been best not to ref yourself.

My son is U17. I haven't happened to referee him this season, and I like it that way, but I wouldn't rule it out if they really needed me for a local friendly, but I would see it as a last resort, and I wouldn't referee a league game (and wouldn't be allowed to by league regs anyway)

 

[TheBFG]

I regularly ref my sons side and yes I'm hard on them, but they're a good side and I feel that's a good way for them to learn? That said I'll also coach them as to what they can get away with depending on the ref when I'm not reffin, whether it's a ref I've got in or if we're away and the home side has provided.

other than the odd cup comp we don't play anything but "friendlies" so maybe the pressure's off?

 

[The Fat]

Hi,

I reffed my son's team on the weekend and they happened to lose. They had been unbeaten all season and lost this last game.

Could this also have something to do with it? Team perhaps unable to handle the prospect that they will lose a game?

I reffed a junior semi-final where the favourites to win didn't. When the game had about 10 minutes to go they suddenly realised that there was the possibility that they would lose. This meant they became less composed and infringed more frequently as the game was slipping away. After the match the losing coach asked me, "Do you really think my boys were that ill disciplined?" I asked him to take a few moments and I would talk to him when I was finished signing the score book and had a drink to cool down. He questioned several PKs all of which I explained the decision and referenced the appropriate laws. I asked him if he thought all of the PKs against the winning team were justified? The question was lost on him (fancy that!!!).
His next comment was, "My boys are shattered. What am I supposed to tell them?"
He obviously had a problem dealing with defeat.
I told him to tell his guys that they played very well but were beaten by a better team on the night.

 

[crossref]

I regularly ref my sons side and yes I'm hard on them, but they're a good side and I feel that's a good way for them to learn?

BFG - if you are reffing your team any differently at all from how you ref any other team then I'd say it's time to stop reffing them.


truly - the momnet the whistle blows: are you reffing them, or following your long term coaching plan for them

 

[Dixie]

Wolrabs, it's a good idea to get your son to give you the inside track - but remember that all kids hate having their dad ref the team. It's like being the teacher's son - you're never quite in the same place as the other team members.

Threatening any sanction at all for the next question about time is a mistake - ever heard a child ask "are we there yet" on a car journey? It's just what they do. When irritated by it (and of course it does happen), just respond with "three minutes less than the last time I answered that question, and four minutes less than the time before" or something equally undemanding.

My own view is that you should assess your capabilities against the other candidates for the job - and if you are the best ref, then you should step up for your son's sake. When I reffed my son's age group, we had a hooker with a lightning-fast strike. He'd get many balls against the head - but two or three times a game I'd ping him for foot up. He just got the timing slightly out, and as a result nicked the oppo ball unfairly. It was marginal and I could have let that go - but that's unfair to the oppo. I took a lot of stick from the lad's dad - easy option would have been to call it differently. But I would feel like a cheat, because I would be one. Notwithstanding, that period was great, both for me and the team. They had a better-than-reasonable ref, they knew my limits and they achieved their potential, winning the county championship twice and coming second twice.

These downers do pop up from tiume to time, making you wonder if it's worth it. invariably, the next few games restore your faith in rugby. Stick with it.

 

[TheBFG]

at 15's I'd be very much coaching a side when I ref them (not my side), within the laws but a lot more talking, where as with my own side I'd ref them like I'd ref a L8 mens team, so some coaching but not allowing for a lack of knowledge, because they know the laws and therefore they need to be on the ball.

ANd I sometimes don't get the choice, if I don't ref they don't get a game, simples!

 

[crossref]

- of course the age is very relevant. it's all a lot less pressured at u12 than at u17
- but BFG I understood your post

I regularly ref my sons side and yes I'm hard on them, but they're a good side and I feel that's a good way for them to learn?

to mean that you are harder on them than you are on other teams (ie their opponents)

that means that you aren't treating the two teams on the pitch the same - by design - and in my mind that's why you shouldn't ref them.

(of course you should ref them if the alternative is no game at all)

 

[TheBFG]

- of course the age is very relevant. it's all a lot less pressured at u12 than at u17
- but BFG I understood your post



to mean that you are harder on them than you are on other teams (ie their opponents)

that means that you aren't treating the two teams on the pitch the same - by design - and in my mind that's why you shouldn't ref them.

(of course you should ref them if the alternative is no game at all)

If it's an evenly matched game, then they get reffed the same, but if a side is getting a bit of a stuffing then i'll tighten up on my own boys, but like I said I see it as development for them, some of the boys are county and academy players and they'll get no favours as they step up, so it's good for them to learn in "friendlies"

 

[Browner]

What I didn't hear in the Op was any 'parent/player' management by the head coach, what were his expectations and how does he lead these people?

I have no issues refereeing my players, and they've learned to accept whatever decisions are given even when the referee is taking a deliberate hard line ( for development or match levelling considerations in friendlies) however we have another parent who referees and he's afforded exactly the same by everyone in my squad and on my touchline parental throng.

As with most things rugby related for kids it starts with the leadership of the head coach IMO.

 

[leaguerefaus]

This all seems very strange to me. Someone refereeing their son's team would be unheard of in RL over here (in RU also, I suspect). Then again, my association has nearly 400 referees, each of whom get paid for games in which they officiate, so I'm not sure of the circumstances involved in the OP's case.

 

[crossref]

my philosophy is different from some other people here, beyond the level of small children, i don't see it as the referee's job to coach and develop and match-level. All those are for the coaches job.

the referee's job is to ref the players and the game in front of him - to create a fair game, under the laws.

of course you vary the style and approach according to age and ability, but NOT according to the team : in all games both teams should be treated the same. No match levelling. Again that's up to the coaches they can always balance things by taking off lending players.


For me the reasons people are giving above explaining why it's good to ref your own players --- all those are bull-eye examples of exactly why you shouldn't be.

 

[Dixie]

This all seems very strange to me. Someone refereeing their son's team would be unheard of in RL over here (in RU also, I suspect). Then again, my association has nearly 400 referees, each of whom get paid for games in which they officiate, so I'm not sure of the circumstances involved in the OP's case.

In England, Society (Association) referees are appointed to Saturday games involving adults. A proportion (usually small) also put their hand up to do Sunday games involving children - but Societies rarely appoint to such games, as clubs are rarely prepared to pay the fees involved. Few clubs run more than four adult sides, two at home, two away. Consequently, they pay weekly fees to the Society for two refs. But at age group level, they run sides at U13, U.14, U.15, U.16, U.17 and often colts. That could double or triple their Society fee - and it would also mean that the Society potentially needs twice as many referees on Sunday as on Saturday.

So the OP's scenario is such that the team needs to provide a ref from within its own ranks, or risk not being able to play.