Shoving the referee

[Drift]

I am in two minds about this, one hand he should never have pushed him, on the other hand sometimes referees are in the way.
I've been hit/pushed a few times this year and more often than not it's been my fault. I don't think he is paying attention to who is there in his way, he just throws out a hand instinctively.

I completely agree about what he got the YC for, he had a brain fart when playing the ball on the ground. However I think out of all of the referees out there at the moment Jackson probably understood the push the best though from being a pro-player and knowing that feeling of having someone in your way when defending on your line.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Is the player an All Black's contender?

1. I doubt it

2. It will not make any difference. This is not NRL, where the Aussie judiciary nobbles Kiwis and lets Kangaroos off without suspension in the weeks leading up to a test.

 

[Ian_Cook]

I am in two minds about this, one hand he should never have pushed him, on the other hand sometimes referees are in the way.
I've been hit/pushed a few times this year and more often than not it's been my fault. I don't think he is paying attention to who is there in his way, he just throws out a hand instinctively.

It doesn't matter who is there, he should not be pushing anyone. If its an opponent instead of the referee, he's playing the opponent off the ball... still a PK infringement.

As I said, if the referee gets himself between the ball or ball-carrier and an arriving player, that is different. Here, there was no reason to push Jackson or anyone else, because they were not in his way at the time.

 

[Drift]

It doesn't matter who is there, he should not be pushing anyone. If its an opponent instead of the referee, he's playing the opponent off the ball... still a PK infringement.

As I said, if the referee gets himself between the ball or ball-carrier and an arriving player, that is different. Here, there was no reason to push Jackson or anyone else, because they were not in his way at the time.

Yeah I understand your point, however I think that the outcry is just massive compared to what has actually happened. He's pushed someone out of the way who has actually hasn't taken notice of who is was due to looking at where the attackers are going to use the ball. His hasn't planned this push like Neil Back did, it's just an instinct.

Would you PK it if he pushed his own player out of his way, like you see some defenders doing when they are joining the defensive line? Are you actually saying you would PK him if he had pushed an opposition player out of the way there, especially since the opposition would have been in front of the ball and offside?

I just think this is getting blown way out of proportion, sure he deserves to sit down for a couple of weeks but the amount of coverage it's getting on social media, and people saying it's a RC is an over-reaction.


At the end of the day it's the player's game and if I am in the way of them and they tell me to move or give me a push then I am clearly in the wrong position. I've had people tell me to "get out of their f*cking way" and quite understandably as well. If the attackers had used Jackson as a shield and scored, then gone onto win this game, the press would have crucified Jackson in this instance. As it stands we are now crucifying a player for wanting to make sure that he could make a tackle and not have a referee in his way.

 

[Rushforth]

it's just an instinct.

No, premeditation is the opposite of instinct.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Drift

Kieren Brooks got six weeks for this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZXrcEwKm1E

....in which the referee was very badly positioned, and may have prevented a possible tackle.

BT's effort was far worse IMO, so he ought to go for longer (although I don't think he will).

 

[Drift]

No, premeditation is the opposite of instinct.

You honestly think BT has planned to push GJ over? Sometimes I wonder what you are actually watching when you make comments like that.

 

[Rushforth]

At the end of the day it's the player's game and if I am in the way of them and they tell me to move or give me a push then I am clearly in the wrong position. I've had people tell me to "get out of their f*cking way" and quite understandably as well.

I can easily forgive you your lack of grammar - probably a typo. But I'm fairly sure that there is more than one player in a game of rugby, and in my experience as a referee players tend to run much closer to me at times (you call it shielding) than is necessary - thus potentially endangering me.

The referee chose a position which I would not have - but he chose a better position for himself than it would have been for me. He watched the previous ruck and kept himself in the best position to move to see grounding, and at no time genuinely interfered with either defence or the attack.

As for "crucifying", I can only infer that you have an interest in the player and/or team concerned. The player was really badly in the wrong and the only potential defence is that at least he didn't hit the referee.

 

[Rushforth]

You honestly think BT has planned to push GJ over? Sometimes I wonder what you are actually watching when you make comments like that.

One of the virtues of being a pompous know-it-all is that ones opinions are honest.

In this particular case, I happen to believe that my opinion is correct - IC seems to agree with my point of view - but please refer to my previous post in which I said it did take a second viewing for me.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Is the player an All Balck's contender?

It's not nice to see such cynicism in one so young!

 

[Dickie E]

It's not nice to see such cynicism in one so young!

just asking, is all :nz:

 

[Ian_Cook]

Hearing postponed...

"Waikato prop Ben Tameifuna will face the New Zealand Rugby judiciary tomorrow morning after technical problems stopped the video hearing going ahead today."

http://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-news/ben-tameifuna-face-judiciary-shoving-referee-6069925

 

[crossref]

after technical problems stopped the video hearing going ahead today."

You need to install Messenger . We wanted to let you know that messages are moving out of the Facebook app to our Messenger app, a free app that's faster and more reliable for everyday messaging. Messenger also includes: new ways to send photos and videos, voice calls, stickers, group conversations and more

 

[Browner]

You honestly think BT has planned to push GJ over?

To my eye, there was unnecessary venom in the shove, and the players prior glance meant he knew exactly what he was doing.

BT was entitled to take up that position and to encourage GJ to 'not be in his way' with reasonable action, If he'd nudged , squeezed or even pulled him to one side then I wouldn't have batted an eyelid on this ( contact happens in rugby) but, I didn't recognise any of these ...

Instead I saw a deliberately directed, calculated, & unnecessarily aggressive shove ( when all potential receiver attackers were some distant away, so it wasn't as desperate as some have made out ) after which the player had no concern for the referee now on his arse.

If he doesn't get an appropriate ban then the judiciary will have increased the chance that grassroots referees get similar treatment, IMO they should reinforce that contact of this ferocity is wholly unacceptable. Will they?.. ....fingers crossed.

 

[crossref]

To my eye, there was unnecessary venom in the shove, and the players prior glance meant he knew exactly what he was doing.

BT was entitled to take up that position and to encourage GJ to 'not be in his way' with reasonable action, If he'd nudged , squeezed or even pulled him to one side then I wouldn't have batted an eyelid on this ( contact happens in rugby) but, I didn't recognise any of these ...

Instead I saw a deliberately directed, calculated, & unnecessarily aggressive shove ( when all potential receiver attackers were some distant away, so it wasn't as desperate as some have made out ) after which the player had no concern for the referee now on his arse.

If he doesn't get an appropriate ban then the judiciary will have increased the chance that grassroots referees get similar treatment, IMO they should reinforce that contact of this ferocity is wholly unacceptable. Will they?.. ....fingers crossed.

I agree with browner.
(gosh!)

 

[Ian_Cook]

You need to install Messenger . We wanted to let you know that messages are moving out of the Facebook app to our Messenger app, a free app that's faster and more reliable for everyday messaging. Messenger also includes: new ways to send photos and videos, voice calls, stickers, group conversations and more

what?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Five weeks.
More than I thought he would get but less than he shohld have got IMO.

"http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11319138

"In weighing up the evidence, Mr Morris noted that Tameifuna had apologised to Jackson immediately after the game and this was accepted. Mr Morris acknowledged the player was genuinely remorseful and had accepted his actions were inexcusable. Mr Morris also accepted the player's statement that he was focussed on defending the goal line and that moving the referee away from that line was an instinctive move that was motivated by playing the game, rather than by malicious intent. He also took into account that Jackson had not taken issue with the incident and he did not believe the push to be maliciously intended.
"Having taking into account the evidence, the player's post-match apology to the referee, his full acknowledgement that his actions were inappropriate, I have endeavoured to impose a proportionate sanction taking into account other similar situations from overseas decisions," he said.
"However it is imperative that players instinctively know that it is never, under any circumstances, appropriate for a player to abuse, verbally or physically, a match official."
"Taking all those factors into account, I find that a suspension of five weeks is appropriate and proportionate to the offending. Ben Tameifuna is banned immediately from all rugby up to and including 5 October."

 

[RobLev]

Five weeks.
More than I thought he would get but less than he shohld have got IMO.

"http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11319138

"In weighing up the evidence, Mr Morris noted that Tameifuna had apologised to Jackson immediately after the game and this was accepted. Mr Morris acknowledged the player was genuinely remorseful and had accepted his actions were inexcusable. Mr Morris also accepted the player's statement that he was focussed on defending the goal line and that moving the referee away from that line was an instinctive move that was motivated by playing the game, rather than by malicious intent. He also took into account that Jackson had not taken issue with the incident and he did not believe the push to be maliciously intended.
"Having taking into account the evidence, the player's post-match apology to the referee, his full acknowledgement that his actions were inappropriate, I have endeavoured to impose a proportionate sanction taking into account other similar situations from overseas decisions," he said.
"However it is imperative that players instinctively know that it is never, under any circumstances, appropriate for a player to abuse, verbally or physically, a match official."
"Taking all those factors into account, I find that a suspension of five weeks is appropriate and proportionate to the offending. Ben Tameifuna is banned immediately from all rugby up to and including 5 October."

So Tameifuna's instinct is to push over persons who get in his way, without the ball - a PK at minimum unless performed on his own team-mates; seems like he needs a lengthy spell out of the game to realign his instincts towards playing the game legally.

 

[Browner]

If Gareth Burns (remember him?) compiled another video of players pushing over referees this would be in there and if BT cops a few weeks then GB has more reason to perhaps feel aggrieved?

Lack of injury to GJ gives BT a sanction credit!

 

[irishref]

that moving the referee away from that line was an instinctive move that was motivated by playing the game

Playing the game outside of what's permitted by law. What kind of defence is that?!!