[Law] Simplified Laws .. Player on the Ground

[Pinky]

Under the existing Lawbook I would allow it
Under the DRAFT new Laws , in the version posted, I would give a PK against

Then you are accepting that the meaning of the law has been changed and the way the game is played has changes, which was stated as not the intention.

 

[Pinky]

So to clarify - Red kick ball forward, behind blue 15, ball ends up close to the touchline, not far from the Blue defending try line. Blue player, chasing back and across, gets there before other Red and Blue players but rather than going to ground to collect the ball, slides at it and kicks it out of play. I would (assuming no one close enough to make it "dangerous") have previously allowed this as a defensive play. Now it is definitely a penalty.

I am happy with the clarification but is has changed my perspective of something (even if not a true Law Changfe - maybe I was getting it wrong all this time). Basically a player can NEVER go to ground to kick the ball.

maybe you were gettiung it wrong - I think as a general rule I would not allow someone off their feet to kick the ball. But given that knocking it into touch with your hand is a PK whether you are off your feet or not, the solution seems to be to gather the ball and then take it or kick it into touch. Either of those requires you to get to your feet, so I think in general that will be good for the game and keeping folk on their feet.

 

[crossref]

Then you are accepting that the meaning of the law has been changed and the way the game is played has changes, which was stated as not the intention.

In that specific scenario I think the draft wording does change the Law . Similarly the cavalry charge is a change
Hopefully the final version will sort out any inconsistencies, and will contain a global caveat to the effect that if any inconsistencies between the new and old laws are discovered , then we should all apply the new ones (or old ones , whatever)

 

[Ian_Cook]

So to clarify - Red kick ball forward, behind blue 15, ball ends up close to the touchline, not far from the Blue defending try line. Blue player, chasing back and across, gets there before other Red and Blue players but rather than going to ground to collect the ball, slides at it and kicks it out of play. I would (assuming no one close enough to make it "dangerous") have previously allowed this as a defensive play. Now it is definitely a penalty.

Yup, although to be fair, I have watched, played and refereed a LOT of rugby over the years, and I have never seen this happen.... and I would have remembered a soccer style piece of play like that. Had I encountered it, I probably would have allowed it.

I am happy with the clarification but is has changed my perspective of something (even if not a true Law Changfe - maybe I was getting it wrong all this time). Basically a player can NEVER go to ground to kick the ball.

Keep the wording of Law 14 in mind

[LAWS]DEFINITIONS
This situation occurs when the ball is available on the ground and a player goes to
ground to gather the ball,

A player who is not tackled, but who goes to ground while holding the ball, or a
player who goes to ground and gathers the ball, must act immediately.
[/LAWS]

Kicking the ball is not gathering it, so in a sense, kicking the ball has never been specifically allowed. The draft, therefore, is not a change in Law, its a clarification, because we are not going from kicking being specifically allowed to kicking being not allowed.

When Law Clarifications are issued, they are not changes to the Law they are explanations of the way the Law was supposed to have been interpreted.

 

[Thunderhorse1986]

Completely that it should be illegal in the context of the laws and welcome the clarification (even if many people didn't need clarification!)

Yup, although to be fair, I have watched, played and refereed a LOT of rugby over the years, and I have never seen this happen.... and I would have remembered a soccer style piece of play like that. Had I encountered it, I probably would have allowed it.

Am sure I saw it in an international or maybe ERCC match in the last few years, possibly Mike Brown or Elliot Daly? But I may be making that up!

 

[Ian_Cook]

To put things in some perspective from an officiating viewpoint , if I am a TJ/AR, tracking close to the ball and watching it to see where it crosses into touch, I don't need some player coming at my feet "sprigs up". I don't think the diligent ball-boy needs that either.

 

[Thunderhorse1986]

Not really how I would have envisaged this, and don't think ball boy should be standing right on the touchline so as put himself in danger in any situation (eg a maul/tackle close to the touchline). But I geuss it's another possible argument as to why it should be specifically outlawed.

 

[ChrisR]

Where can I find what y'all are looking at?

 

[Treadmore]

Where can I find what y'all are looking at?

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3660&d=1513159224

 

[ChrisR]

Thanks, Treadmore.