Slim margins

[Stu10]

I feel slightly side tracked
I fully accept one was a YC on was a RC
although both were declared high degree of danger

My issue was that I think
- 10 mins for one
- 53 mins plus a 2 week ban for the other

Is not a fair reflection of the comparative seriousness of the offences

I think a 20 min replacement would have made them a fairer pair of outcomes

I generally dislike the automatic ban following a red card. I appreciate a RC in the first minute vs 79th minute has a significantly different impact, and I don't have the answers, but generally speaking I think there are times when the additional ban feels heavy handed.

 

[crossref]

I generally dislike the automatic ban following a red card. I appreciate a RC in the first minute vs 79th minute has a significantly different impact, and I don't have the answers, but generally speaking I think there are times when the additional ban feels heavy handed.

It's another thing left over from RCs were only given for real foul play .. that deserved a ban

It all needs rethinking from scratch

 

[Volun-selected]

Lottery is probably the wrong analogy, but you do get his point.

The reason why players tackle high is to prevent an offload. Go low and the ball is free to be passed.
Trying to detangle this incentive is the issue the lawmakers will battle to achieve.

Unless they take the nuclear option of “all tackles must be at or below the waist/nips/T9 vertebra/anatomical object de jour” and “ball carriers cannot drop into contact” at which point rapid offloads become the norm and we all do a lot more running.

 

[shebeen]

I feel slightly side tracked
I fully accept one was a YC on was a RC
although both were declared high degree of danger

My issue was that I think
- 10 mins for one
- 53 mins plus a 2 week ban for the other

Is not a fair reflection of the comparative seriousness of the offences

I think a 20 min replacement would have made them a fairer pair of outcomes

Totally agree on the orange card being a better option for the game. Especially since we are in an age of rapid card deployment. Sam Warburton would not his head too.

Perhaps he did check and was satisifed that the Barrett pass was not c&o forward and therefore had no need to intervene again

They cleared the try immediately on the audio. I'm assuming they then went and checked whilst the kick was being taken, but we don't know that.

 

[didds]

Yup its all about slim margins, Kolisi goes 3-6 inches higher and its a red card.

well, WADR, I'd suggest 3-6 inches (and deffo the latter) is a HUGE margin in reality and probably indicates that he knew what he was doing and was confiorming to expectations with little danger of a head contact.

 

[didds]

Unless they take the nuclear option of “all tackles must be at or below the waist/nips/T9 vertebra/anatomical object de jour” and “ball carriers cannot drop into contact” at which point rapid offloads become the norm and we all do a lot more running.

has that been the result in Farnce with their trials? ie lots of offloading and more running?

 

[Volun-selected]

has that been the result in Farnce with their trials? ie lots of offloading and more running?

I’ve often wondered and have tried to find hard data, but most articles only focus on the “lower height = reduction in significant injuries “ metric. One article I found that did talk of the impact on the gameplay has reported feed from French coaches and players:

The subjective feedback of coaches and players has been very positive, and the game has changed in ways that they are very happy about. They are reporting more tries, more passes, more offloads, faster ruck speeds, and overall, a better product, all because tackling below the waist frees tacklers up to be more evasive, and quicker with passes and ball placement.

Lowering the legal height of the tackle: The six year process, and that's just to get here, However, it is key that this data can be replicated quantitatively for credibility because a few paragraphs later they report that:

Initially, and importantly, these changes were not immediate and obvious. They took time. The number of high tackle penalties was very high for the first few months. Frustration grew, not unsurprisongly. As one coach said, "You have to take the medicine, and it'll be unpleasant at first, but then it'll start to work".

Which does make you wonder in the various Unions have the appetite to push through with the inevitable “death of the game” and “too many cards” headlines. If the data is solid they would, if not I suspect they’d just fold and revert.

 

[Phil E]

Which does make you wonder in the various Unions have the appetite to push through with the inevitable “death of the game” and “too many cards” headlines. If the data is solid they would, if not I suspect they’d just fold and revert.

Experience in England across the whole of the country (from the DLV survey) is no increase in cards of either colour (most cards given this season regarding high tackles would have been a card last season).
Some increase in penalty count , especially towards the end of each half as players get tired.
Increase in the number of offloads, resulting in a faster flowing game.

The predicted (by some) players leaving, death of the game, huge increase in cards, has not materialised. Armageddon has turned into a damp squib.

 

[didds]

Which does make you wonder in the various Unions have the appetite to push through with the inevitable “death of the game” and “too many cards” headlines. If the data is solid they would, if not I suspect they’d just fold and revert.

I can easily recall when YCs were very first introduced there were dire warnings and concerns that it would mean the end of the game etc.

Within weeks (and not many) - quelle surprise - behavior improved and there werent the 20 YCs per game that some quarters had warned would happen...

 

[crossref]

here is Planet Rugy's careful analysis of the two decisions.

TLDR : decisions probably correct, but very slim margins between these two tackles.

Law discussion: Comparing Sam Cane and Siya Kolisi's tackle offences

This week's law discussion takes a look at two tackles from the the World Cup Final, but Argentina produced a memorable moment outside those as well.

www.planetrugby.com

 

[Shelflife]

But the game is all about slim margins CR, a winger goes for an intercept, misses by an inch and instead of scoring himself its a run in for his opposite number and a 14 point difference.

 

[belladonna]

I can easily recall when YCs were very first introduced there were dire warnings and concerns that it would mean the end of the game etc.

Within weeks (and not many) - quelle surprise - behavior improved and there werent the 20 YCs per game that some quarters had warned would happen...

And OF managed to avoid getting carded the entire RWC. Maybe they do have an impact after all

 

[crossref]

in the Times rugby pod they pointed out that Courtney Laws has never had a YC or RC for a tackle (which seems hard to credit! - I guess they meant playing for England as surely it must have happened at some time) .

 

[Stu10]

And OF managed to avoid getting carded the entire RWC. Maybe they do have an impact after all

A shining advert for tackle school

 

[crossref]

A shining advert for tackle school

not sure he has done it yet - the 1 week reduction is for agreeing to do it, isn't it?

 

[didds]

And OF managed to avoid getting carded the entire RWC. Maybe they do have an impact after all

Or "they" jusdt make it up as they go along of course...

 

[crossref]

Nigel Owens doesn't think that the bunker officials made good decisions in the RWC final ...

He doesnt say specifically which decisions he disagrees with ....

Slim margins

Nigel Owens urges World Rugby to ditch bunker after World Cup final red

Nigel Owens, who refereed the 2015 Rugby World Cup final, wants to see World Rugby make three key changes in the wake of the 2023 global tournament.

www.planetrugby.com

 

[shebeen]

Nigel Owens doesn't think that the bunker officials made good decisions in the RWC final ...

He doesnt say specifically which decisions he disagrees with ....

Slim margins

Nigel Owens urges World Rugby to ditch bunker after World Cup final red

Nigel Owens, who refereed the 2015 Rugby World Cup final, wants to see World Rugby make three key changes in the wake of the 2023 global tournament.

www.planetrugby.com

Rereading this, he actually doesn't make this comment at all in the article. You are putting words into his mouth. (happy to be wrong here, but looks like all he comments on is the process, none of the decisions).

I totally agree with him on HU - GLDO, it is not an equitable outcome for what is quite often a guess by the referee.

Squidge doesn't sit on the fence. Puts it down to tackle technique. Didn't realise there had only ever been a single yellow card in 9 RWC finals before this. So card fervour was 36 times higher than history*!
WR has already squashed it, ut great analysis as usual

 

[didds]

NO is just a rent a gob these days, but for once he is on the money. WR have created a pigs ear of a situation which they further appear to exacerbate with behind-the-doors unannounced changes to implementations with seemingly no idea how to extract the elite game form the mire they have created.

 

[crossref]

Rereading this, he actually doesn't make this comment at all in the article. You are putting words into his mouth. (happy to be wrong here, but looks like all he comments on is the process, none of the decisions).

Well he says ...

also think that when you have these sorts of red cards dished out for debatable decisions, it does open referees up to the sort of abuse we’ve seen recently