Sunday morning

[spikeno10]

This Sunday morning I answered a plea from my club's youth chair to go and referee the under 14s.
Lovely morning, if a tad cold, but the lads from both clubs put on a great performance. The scoreline was a little one sided but didn't seem to bother either sets of players.
From my point of view I enjoyed the game and got some really nice comments from the coaches and parents. Even getting an opposition parent coming to find me in the bar to say he thought I'd done a good job.
After the tunnel I asked the players for a quick word and thanked them for a great game, played in a brilliant spirit. I explained that rugby is my hobby too and mornings like this made it really enjoyable for me too.
There was one thing I want to ask you all though which was I awarded a penalty against a player who screamed at the opposition as he was running at them (a bit braveheart style) - I thought it was unsportsman like so blew up. I explained to him, loud enough for those on the touchline to hear (was close enough so as not to shout) why I'd done it and that there were standards I expect in the game. He was fine, as were his coaches.
The question though is, was I right to do this or in hindsight should I have allowed play to continue and have a quiet chat in a break of play?

 

[leaguerefaus]

This Sunday morning I answered a plea from my club's youth chair to go and referee the under 14s.
Lovely morning, if a tad cold, but the lads from both clubs put on a great performance. The scoreline was a little one sided but didn't seem to bother either sets of players.
From my point of view I enjoyed the game and got some really nice comments from the coaches and parents. Even getting an opposition parent coming to find me in the bar to say he thought I'd done a good job.
After the tunnel I asked the players for a quick word and thanked them for a great game, played in a brilliant spirit. I explained that rugby is my hobby too and mornings like this made it really enjoyable for me too.
There was one thing I want to ask you all though which was I awarded a penalty against a player who screamed at the opposition as he was running at them (a bit braveheart style) - I thought it was unsportsman like so blew up. I explained to him, loud enough for those on the touchline to hear (was close enough so as not to shout) why I'd done it and that there were standards I expect in the game. He was fine, as were his coaches.
The question though is, was I right to do this or in hindsight should I have allowed play to continue and have a quiet chat in a break of play?

Congrats on picking up the whistle!

Personally I probably would have had a word to him when play next allowed, particularly considering the good nature the game was being played in. I'm not saying you're wrong though, everyone handles things differently and I'm sure some other members of the forum will say they would have done the same as you.

Good job on the game overall by the sounds of things!

 

[crossref]

I think it depends on what he was screaming and the 'tone of voice' or way he was screaming.
certainly I can imagine circumstances at U14 that I would PK for. I can also imagine circumstances where a quiet word would be appropriate or - if he's thirteen years ols and yelling with exhiliration and pure excitement then no problem, play on!

 

[Dan_A]

As a relative newbie myself one of the best bits of advice I've picked up on this forum is "Ask / Tell / Penalise". Maybe that approach would have worked well here? Quick word between plays should suffice, if he infringes again then its a stronger word, any more and PK.

That said, my experience (u12s) is that any referee who is assertive, clear and consistent is such a novelty that minor errors are barely noticed. Sounds like you did just fine.

 

[OB..]

Back when I was playing in the U12s (first year of rugby in those days!) the captain decided to run down the field shouting "Get out of my way!!!" He got penalised.

Delighted to see standards have not slipped.

 

[andyscott]

Ask tell penalise is not used for every incident in the game, sometimes you go straight to p.

You did well, had a standard set it and kept to it

 

[Dan_A]

Andyscott - fair enough, don't disagree

 

[Waspsfan]

I think you were spot on. If it looked wrong and you instantly pinged it then don't question yourself now. It was clearly a good day overall.

Also agree with Andy, ATP is not always applicable.

Long time since I used ATP - now it is just penalise-warn-card!

 

[Dickie E]

As a relative newbie myself one of the best bits of advice I've picked up on this forum is "Ask / Tell / Penalise". Maybe that approach would have worked well here? Quick word between plays should suffice, if he infringes again then its a stronger word, any more and PK.

me too

 

[Dan_A]

Long time since I used ATP - now it is just penalise-warn-card!

At u15? No matter what the standard? I'd say that's pretty harsh.

 

[Waspsfan]

Of course not! I don't do children's games and haven't used ATP in an adult game since I was about level 9.

 

[Jacko]

Of course not! I don't do children's games and haven't used ATP in an adult game since I was about level 9.

Really?? The first time a side doesn't set a good gap at a line out you just free kick them?? There's still a place for ATP in high level rugby IMO.

 

[Dan_A]

Ok, that makes more sense. Since we are in the juniors forum section, and the OP specifically mentioned u15s, I was trying to suggest that ATP is a useful tool as it educates the young players whilst maintaing match structure and discipline. I guess by the time they reach senior rugby there may be less need for education (although I seriously doubt that at times!)

 

[Womble]

Of course not! I don't do children's games and haven't used ATP in an adult game since I was about level 9.

May I suggest you rethink your management of the game! I have never stopped using ATP & I have been at it 20 years.

 

[Account Deleted]

May I suggest you rethink your management of the game! I have never stopped using ATP & I have been at it 20 years.

Agree with that. There is a place for ATP. Just as there is a place for going straight to the penalty and a card.

Referee what you see happen in front of you in context.

 

[Simon Thomas]

I think you were spot on. If it looked wrong and you instantly pinged it then don't question yourself now. It was clearly a good day overall.

Also agree with Andy, ATP is not always applicable.

Long time since I used ATP - now it is just penalise-warn-card!

just what I like to see - early doors management, but only when appropriate. The A sometimes works too ! :biggrin:

ATP has its place at all levels including elite, and can be a reflection of empathy and appropriate management.

 

[Waspsfan]

Really?? The first time a side doesn't set a good gap at a line out you just free kick them?? There's still a place for ATP in high level rugby IMO.

Not setting a good gap rarely comes up to be honest. But first early lift at the lineout, first early engage at scrum, not straighy put in or in front of the kicker at kick off - I would go straight to sanction. Don't you?

 

[Jacko]

Not setting a good gap rarely comes up to be honest. But first early lift at the lineout, first early engage at scrum, not straighy put in or in front of the kicker at kick off - I would go straight to sanction. Don't you?

Early lift is usually throwing in side trying to trigger the oppo to go up early, so I stop it, ask throwing in side not to dummy jump, oppo to stay down til ball in and hooker to hurry.

But agree with you on the others.

It varies according to what infringement we're talking about. Clearly we're not going to ATP for punches to the head at any level. There are less occasions where I would ATP in a higher level game (to be honest it's often TP, but I'm a grumpy bugger...), but my point was that there still are several cases where it's appropriate. Gap at line, early lift, props binding before I say bind, receiver not 2m etc etc.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Clearly we're not going to ATP for punches to the head at any level.

unlike Cornish and Valleys referees in the 1970s :biggrin:

 

[FlipFlop]

Must say, I rarely ATP these days, it is more TP then card.