tackle height, no dipping and pick and go.

[didds]

As a vfery generalised apporach/doisucssion without meaning to get mired in "itz roonin the game innit guvnor" type debates.... thinking about the drop the tackle height concept and with regard that AIUI the french implementation was that ball carriers cannot drop height into a tackle...

how does this affect pick and drive? Or is that Ok bedcause the head/chest never actually drops from the initial 70cm off the ground - but the head leads?

What about taking a pass when vertical, 5m out faced with a defender on the line - can't now drop to drive through the tackle with a shoulder presumably ?

Im thinking the bigger effect of this will not be on defenders but attackers?

thoughts?

 

[crossref]

Obviously we don't know
I think I saw a reference to guidelines that will address how to referee this specifically near the goal line

Long term perhaps we are heading to NFL style touch downs where you don't have to actually, um , touch down

 

[Stu10]

Long term perhaps we are heading to NFL style touch downs where you don't have to actually, um , touch down

 

[Flish]

Touched on by the RFU rep on this weeks Good the Bad and the Rugby podcast, they are *not* currently looking to change law like in France to prohibit the ball carrier from leading with the head, but they are going to encourage them not to, so wait on them finalising the guidance to see what it looks like - but sure they specifically said that the try line pick and go would, and should still be part of the game

 

[crossref]

In the times ye

Touched on by the RFU rep on this weeks Good the Bad and the Rugby podcast, they are *not* currently looking to change law like in France to prohibit the ball carrier from leading with the head, but they are going to encourage them not to, so wait on them finalising the guidance to see what it looks like - but sure they specifically said that the try line pick and go would, and should still be part of the game

they are going to change the laws and then say that near the goal line nothing has changed. Been there before !

 

[Volun-selected]

…they are *not* currently looking to change law like in France to prohibit the ball carrier from leading with the head, but they are going to encourage them not to…

The sooner they get the guidance out the better (see previous rant on other thread about how the guidelines should have been issued with the announcement). However, encouragement will be far less effective without a law/reg change.

 

[Volun-selected]

how does this affect pick and drive? Or is that Ok bedcause the head/chest never actually drops from the initial 70cm off the ground - but the head leads?

What about taking a pass when vertical, 5m out faced with a defender on the line - can't now drop to drive through the tackle with a shoulder presumably ?

Im thinking the bigger effect of this will not be on defenders but attackers?

I think there will be a difference in treating ball carriers running and dropping into a tackle vs. a BC taking possession off the ground or grubber and then coming up into contact.

For the 5m play, I suspect dropping a shoulder to “expose the hard points” - I think that’s the phrase they used in one of the previous law clarifications - will be a no-no, but diving into a gap will be ok.

Will definitely impact attacker behavior will an emphasis back to the old coaching adage to “hit spaces not faces”- but again, all conjecture until we see The Guidelines.

 

[crossref]

i wonder if all this came as surprise to those charged with writing Laws and Guidelines?

And do the RFU actually have anyone in charge of writing Laws/Guideline ... which is normally a WR job

 

[didds]

Touched on by the RFU rep on this weeks Good the Bad and the Rugby podcast, they are *not* currently looking to change law like in France to prohibit the ball carrier from leading with the head, but they are going to encourage them not to, so wait on them finalising the guidance to see what it looks like - but sure they specifically said that the try line pick and go would, and should still be part of the game

which then asks questions like "how do you tackle below the waist, when the waist is a foot and half behind the head which is now 6 inches form the try line?
OB-s answer of course is always available, but when sides are scoring just because they get within 10m of the try likne. I suppose one cold guarantee a scxore form one's own goal line by a succession of pick and drives that cant be tackled come to that.
Im sure somebody will come up with a solution - anybody know what they did in france?

 

[didds]

Im not really seeing how a player with shoulders two feet wide dicvng at a gap that is a foot wide is any different to dropping a shoulder to expose any hard points. because the hard points on the defenders will be meeting the hard points of the BC.

hey ho. I do apprecisate none of us have any answers, mainly becasue the RFU dont.
FTR I dont have an issue with the general consept of dsropping tackle heights. I just agree the comms over it has been non existant and its difficult to square how it all works when part of the wider game - such as discussed here.

Thanks to all contributors in this thread.

 

[crossref]

another interesting thing is the double tackle

In France they banned it as (AIUI) becuase
normally a double tackle is one low one high.
But now first tackler goes low (because he has to) and now a second tackler would also have to go low (because he has to) ... so there is a serious danger of the two tacklers banging their heads together.

This also has implications near the line on a pick and go. If the person picking and going is Estebeth, which one person can stop him on his own?

 

[Stu10]

another interesting thing is the double tackle

In France they banned it as (AIUI) becuase
normally a double tackle is one low one high.
But now first tackler goes low (because he has to) and now a second tackler would also have to go low (because he has to) ... so there is a serious danger of the two tacklers banging their heads together.

This also has implications near the line on a pick and go. If the person picking and going is Estebeth, which one person can stop him on his own?

I think the reality is that there will be more tries due to more offloads and harder to defend at the goal line; but this should "benefit" both team equally.

 

[crossref]

might as well post here as well

‎The Real Science of Sport Podcast: BREAKING NEWS: English Rugby's Controversial New Tackle Law on Apple Podcasts

‎Show The Real Science of Sport Podcast, Ep BREAKING NEWS: English Rugby's Controversial New Tackle Law - 24 Jan 2023

podcasts.apple.com

 

[lawsons]

As I understand it they are going to distinguish between “open play” and “other play” (or some other term). Pick and goes from the base of a ruck, scrum etc would be deemed other play )as would mauls etc). The below waist law would only apply to open play. Current law to other play. This if you pick and go from a ruck, they are not concerned with those tackles as they are generally low speed and low impact. Pass it out though and you have to be upright and tacklers tackle below the belly button (I imagine the line will be drawn).

 

[Balones]

I can see short, stocky players being of a benefit to a team.

 

[Phil E]

I can see short, stocky players being of a benefit to a team.

There is a specific thread for this topic, please feel free to carry on the conversation there.

RFU law variations approved to lower tackle height

RFU LAW VARIATIONS APPROVED TO LOWER TACKLE HEIGHT https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/law-variations-approved-to-lower-tackle-height-in-community-rugby-union THE LAW CHANGES ARE AS FOLLOWS: Law 9 Foul Play 9.11.(a) Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others...

forum.rugbyrefs.com

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