Tackle height stuff

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
14,132
Post Likes
2,153
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
I've got my first experience of the above sternum tackle stuff this weekend in Cambodia.
Anyone got any useful tips on how to manage, what to look for, what happens around the breakdown, dipping ball carrier, etc?
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,811
Post Likes
3,148
Sternum height is actually quite easy to spot, The trickiest thing is ball carrier dipping, which is new
 

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
14,132
Post Likes
2,153
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
Is there something too about sternum height doesn't apply at a pick & go?
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,811
Post Likes
3,148
Is there something too about sternum height doesn't apply at a pick & go?
In England correct.
But what do the Cambodian Law Variations say ??

If you are using RFU variations this site is great (Tackle Hub)


.. and watch the coherence sessions listed there fro lots of examples
 
Last edited:

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,067
Post Likes
1,797
CR coveerd it but - its presumably down to local union implementations. which could even be localised/state/province unions in some cuircumstances. (eg in 1992 in Taranaki, Senior 3rd completion had localised laws tweaks in place )
 

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
16,094
Post Likes
2,357
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
If it's the same as RFU, then above sternum only applies in open play.
So not at rucks and mauls, not at pick and go (within 1m) and not when diving for the line to score.

You may find it helpful to say to yourself "open play" to remind yourself when your are in that phase and sternum, tackles apply.

Height wise, if it's above the elbow it's usually above the sternum.

Be prepared to let it go with a warning if it's passive and they fall off with no head contact and no affect on possession.

Late and Low, I've had one in about 7 games.

The tackle hub has a lot of useful information including videos.
 

tim White


Referees in England
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
2,003
Post Likes
261
After the Penalty, or at the next stoppage tell them to "Keep the tackles low/down please" with graceful hand signals like patting a duvet.
-BUT, be prepared to escalate with "You've just been told." PK "BE VERY CAREFUL"
 

jdeagro


Referees in America
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
280
Post Likes
50
Current Referee grade:
Level 1
Curious what the general discussion has been in England around these trials of lowering the tackle height when the tackler is chasing from behind / tackles from behind? Something like the sternum is obviously much harder to gauge from that direction.

Also will be interesting if they ever trial setting the height lower, as at a certain point it would likely increase the danger for the tackler with kicking feet in front of them (when tackling from behind).
 

Nilo

Referees in Wales
Joined
Aug 21, 2023
Messages
14
Post Likes
13
Location
Wales
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
In Wales I've been a fair bit more strict with it, especially at the start most of us as referees potentially had games with very high penalty counts as a result. The main difficulty we've had has been judging the 2nd tackler as the ball carrier is usually on the way down - this is where most of the debate has come in.

The simple answer at the moment for me is be practical and empathetic in your judgement, if it looks wrong, it probably is, but equally be firm in it because otherwise behaviours won't change. Over time I'm seeing tackling getting better and better, and teams disciplining themselves when they see the tackle heights creeping up.

I agree with Phil it is useful to remind yourself that it is 'open play' only. If players attempt to tackle to prevent the offload or rip the ball, they are now running the risk of being penalised for it, I want to see a tackler get low, bent at the hips, and attempting to wrap to make a legal tackle - if they do that, then usually they've done their part in making a legal tackle, its then the ball carriers responsibility to not dip excessively and cause injury.

Doesn't mean coaches and spectators see it the same way of course, as per my last game...
Red player: *clearly tackles above the sternum*
Me: "Penalty advantage, high tackle"
Red Coach: "C'mon ref! That was never high, he tackled the chest!"
Me: ... :censored:

(Obvious note: this was AFTER my team talk at the start of the game with them all in the changing room talking about the new tackle height...)
 
Last edited:

number11


Referees in Wales
Joined
Dec 14, 2021
Messages
62
Post Likes
33
Current Referee grade:
Level 3
Further to Nilo's message, the lessons we received were about Head Zones. If the tackler's head is out of the ball carrier's head zone - i.e. below the level of the BC's shoulders - then the tackle is good.

Equally, if the T's head is out of the zone, it's easier to judge if the BC dipped into the zone.

Still, not easy during a full tilt game.
 
Last edited:

Lee Lifeson-Peart


Referees in England
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
7,807
Post Likes
1,003
Current Referee grade:
Level 6
If it's the same as RFU, then above sternum only applies in open play.
So not at rucks and mauls, not at pick and go (within 1m) and not when diving for the line to score.

You may find it helpful to say to yourself "open play" to remind yourself when your are in that phase and sternum, tackles apply.

Height wise, if it's above the elbow it's usually above the sternum.

Be prepared to let it go with a warning if it's passive and they fall off with no head contact and no affect on possession.

Late and Low, I've had one in about 7 games.

The tackle hub has a lot of useful information including videos.

According to a presentation in YRS land this week by RFU Discipline there's been ONE RC in the whole country for Late and Low :LOL:
 

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
16,094
Post Likes
2,357
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
According to a presentation in YRS land this week by RFU Discipline there's been ONE RC in the whole country for Late and Low :LOL:

Not guilty, mine was a penalty only.
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


Referees in England
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
7,807
Post Likes
1,003
Current Referee grade:
Level 6
It's against the ball carrier for leading with his head into opponents, potential tacklers, and thus endangering his and their heads.

Thanks chbg.

Apologies.

I wouldn't mind I live in jargon (and acronym) obsessed work place and it gets on my thrupenny bits!
 
Last edited:

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
16,094
Post Likes
2,357
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
Who doesn't love a TLA :)
 

jdeagro


Referees in America
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
280
Post Likes
50
Current Referee grade:
Level 1
It's against the ball carrier for leading with his head into opponents, potential tacklers, and thus endangering his and their heads.
I don't fully follow. What does that have to do with late? Also, leading with the head meaning intentionally forcing their head forward just before contact? (As I imagine it'd be rather difficult to run forward without your head in front of your body, unless you're straight upright.)
 

Stu10


Referees in England
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
883
Post Likes
478
Current Referee grade:
Level 15 - 11
Curious what the general discussion has been in England around these trials of lowering the tackle height when the tackler is chasing from behind / tackles from behind? Something like the sternum is obviously much harder to gauge from that direction.

Also will be interesting if they ever trial setting the height lower, as at a certain point it would likely increase the danger for the tackler with kicking feet in front of them (when tackling from behind).

This came up in a recent Society meeting and generated mixed responses. Personally, I judging each one in terms of dynamic and danger/risk, bearing in mind that a tackle at chest height may be liable to sanction. For example, if a tackler slams into a "stationary" player with a shoulder impacting between the shoulder blades then I'd give a penalty, whereas a tackler chasing to catch a player that dives and gets a handful of jersey between the shoulder blades is OK IMHO, because it does not create a potential head-on-head scenario and is low danger.
 

chbg


Referees in England
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
1,486
Solutions
1
Post Likes
445
Current Referee grade:
Level 7
I don't fully follow. What does that have to do with late? Also, leading with the head meaning intentionally forcing their head forward just before contact? (As I imagine it'd be rather difficult to run forward without your head in front of your body, unless you're straight upright.)
That's the terminology - generally the ball carrier drops their height just before contact with the opposition. But a picture being worth many thousands of my words, here you go:1700774586524.png
 
Top