Tackle/release inches from try line

menace


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@Stu10 - I've done this exact thing for the same result (and same resulting feelings about equity). And I'll never do that again.

IMO it's simply not fair, equitable, empathic (add adjective) the BC gets that sort of free shot.
Nothing in the laws that says you have to call 'tackle'and when. So I now say nothing in this close to try line and let the players sort it out (ie more time to push the BC back, or take to ground fully (not just one knee) etc etc. IMO I'd delay any call, let the dynamics happen, and something more clear generally evolves without unfair advantage to one side.
 

Stu10

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@Stu10 - I've done this exact thing for the same result (and same resulting feelings about equity). And I'll never do that again.

IMO it's simply not fair, equitable, empathic (add adjective) the BC gets that sort of free shot.
Nothing in the laws that says you have to call 'tackle'and when. So I now say nothing in this close to try line and let the players sort it out (ie more time to push the BC back, or take to ground fully (not just one knee) etc etc. IMO I'd delay any call, let the dynamics happen, and something more clear generally evolves without unfair advantage to one side.

I think difficulty arises when trying to be more fair to one team than the other... in my scenario the attacking team are equally expecting their player to be released because he's been tackled and gone to ground, he's done the work to get that close to the tryline, the defence have failed to repel him adequately, should the ball carrier not be equally entitled for the tackle to be managed in the same way as per the other 99% of the game?

I don't believe the laws say anything at all regarding a ref calling out "tackle", rather this is an aspect of game management. The laws describe what a tackle is, and what players must subsequently do.

In this scenario, one of the teams is going to feel aggrieved no matter what... tackle/release/score then defending side is upset, allow the defender to not release in the tackle and/or illegally strip the ball then the attacking side is upset. I think being consistent and accurate with the laws is best (at least I can justify that), which means the defender must release the ball and the ball-carrier immediately after the ball-carrier goes to ground.
 

Arabcheif

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I agree with Stu10. We'd ref it this way in all other areas of the pitch. We should ref it the same way.
 

Harry

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Why is this scenario different from a defender chasing the BC, tackling round the ankles and the BC reaches over the line to score.
Surely the tackled player has the right to do this wherever the tackler happens to be.
 

menace


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I agree with Stu10. We'd ref it this way in all other areas of the pitch. We should ref it the same way.
Perhap ive not explained myslef well. I'm suggesting delaying a tackle call (or making no call at all) to allow dynamic to sort out....which I will do on other parts of the field. I'm not sure about others but I'm not calling tackle at every tackle to enforce a 'release'. So I'm not doing anything "special" at the line. You can still PK a player without having made a preventative call beforehand if they had not complied with their obligations. Sometimes taking a breath and saying nothing will get you a result and you don't have to interject yourself.
 

menace


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Why is this scenario different from a defender chasing the BC, tackling round the ankles and the BC reaches over the line to score.
Surely the tackled player has the right to do this wherever the tackler happens to be.
Generally that will have happened and try scored before you've had time to call for tackler to release. (And hence it not necessary to.say anything). If they are well short then you'd call for a release and in that case the BC can't propel themselves forward to then reach out (must release ball and get to feet)

So for me the scenario in OP is a little bit different to the scenario you pose and when to call a tackler to release.
 

number11


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I've had the same situation happen recently.

In my case I told the player that he had to play the ball back. He frustratedly complied, and the try was scored from another move.

Personally, if the ref tells a player to release as there's a tackle made, allowing the tackled player to reach forward to score is not fair contest.

From the laws: (paraphrasing)

* Tacklers must allow the BC to play the ball
* BC must make the ball available

I don't think it's an unreasonable interpretation.
 

Decorily

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I've had the same situation happen recently.

In my case I told the player that he had to play the ball back. He frustratedly complied, and the try was scored from another move.

Personally, if the ref tells a player to release as there's a tackle made, allowing the tackled player to reach forward to score is not fair contest.

From the laws: (paraphrasing)

* Tacklers must allow the BC to play the ball
* BC must make the ball available

I don't think it's an unreasonable interpretation.
A tackled player is allowed under Law to place the ball in any direction...I think your interpretation is indeed unreasonable.
 

number11


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A tackled player is allowed under Law to place the ball in any direction...I think your interpretation is indeed unreasonable.
Indeed they are. But I don't think that calling 'release' to tacklers should therefore allow the BC to score a try. I don't believe it's fair.
 

Decorily

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It's a tackle situation or it's not.
No half measures '
 

Marc Wakeham


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I've had the same situation happen recently.

In my case I told the player that he had to play the ball back. He frustratedly complied, and the try was scored from another move.

Personally, if the ref tells a player to release as there's a tackle made, allowing the tackled player to reach forward to score is not fair contest.

From the laws: (paraphrasing)

* Tacklers must allow the BC to play the ball
* BC must make the ball available

I don't think it's an unreasonable interpretation.
The un-paraphrased law state:

"7. Tackled players must immediately :
a. Make the ball available so that play can continue by releasing, passing or
pushing the ball in any direction except forward. They may place the ball
in any direction.

Etc..."

So you have no right in law to tell the tackled player that he has to play the ball back. Potentially a critical error. So, for me your interpretation is indeed unreasonable.
 

Marc Wakeham


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Indeed they are. But I don't think that calling 'release' to tacklers should therefore allow the BC to score a try. I don't believe it's fair.
What give you the authority to make up the law? The tackler has a right to expect you to apply the law fairly (that is, to allow him to comply with it)


At the call "Tackle" The tackle AND the tackled player must comply with THE law. . It is not telling the tcklet to release and then the tacklet to play the ball. BOTH must act "immediately". Just apply that law.
 

Volun-selected


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As much as it feels unfair to allow the tackled player to drop down reach out and score, if a player was tackled half a meter further on and the dropped down on the line we’d award a try and not insist they place it backwards.

I guess as long as the law has they can “place in any direction“ then defending
players need to either make the tackle far enough off the line the BC can’t immediately place on or over the goal line, or hold them up long enough for supporting players to join in (and either push them back, or force the attackers to start a maul, or get enough defending players on their feet and on the line so that their legs mean the BC cannot push through).
 

Phil E


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What's more unfair is that they got close to the line and were then not allowed to reach out and score.
The opposition had 99 metres to stop them but left it to the last meter?
 

didds

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What's more unfair is that they got close to the line and were then not allowed to reach out and score.
The opposition had 99 metres to stop them but left it to the last meter?
This. 100%.
Sonme while back now when the seat belt tackle concept came in, a player was carded for a seat belt tackle as the BC dived low to score.

I asked what else was the defender supposed to do in this circumstance?

OB was quite correct, and altered my view entirely when he responded "dont let the try scorer get in that position in the first place".
 

menace


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I still think there's a bit too much black and white thinking here..when in fact it's acceptable to referee in the grey. I think the key in this situation is when the referee calls a tackle (or 'tackler release'), and can still can apply the laws as writ (there's is no.def of "immediately"). I think the defence is entitled to defend the line and "complete" the tackle as much as the opportunity the attack is given to touch down.. I'm sorry but I'm certainly not going to give the clever attacker held just short ofthe line the benefit of getting a quick knee to the ground and provided a quick call so that they can just flop over the line to score. Allowing them to reach out and score is fine...but me telling the defence to let them go, so that the attack can easily do so? I dont think so.
As many here have said in forums before. "Safety, EQUITY, law" ..in that order.
There are many situations that we don't just blow whistle or strictly apply the laws as writ (think the #9 digging for the ball in the ruck 😉) but "manage" it for sensitivity and empathy to the players and the principles of the game. To me this is a situation to manage more.
 

menace


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OB was quite correct, and altered my view entirely when he responded "dont let the try scorer get in that position in the first place

Funny. I thought it was OB that altered my view to be more empathetic to the defenders close to the line? But then again plenty of good advice in this forum and who said it all melds together and gets fuzzy as I get older.
 

number11


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Mark, I think that asking me why I'm making up laws is unfair when it's much more likely that I misread it.

After posting here I checked them myself and found that I was wrong. I still feel that the referee telling the defence to effectively allow the BC to score is not ensuring fair contest for the ball. But next time this situation arises I will not be repeating the actions I took before.
 

tim White


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Apply the laws, they apply everywhere on the pitch. If you give the defence the advantage of holding on in a tackle in the field of play that is clearly unfair to the attacking team and contrary to law.

The dilemma you face is only in your mind -the comment from before about stopping before they got this close applies.
 

Marc Wakeham


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Mark, I think that asking me why I'm making up laws is unfair when it's much more likely that I misread it.

After posting here I checked them myself and found that I was wrong. I still feel that the referee telling the defence to effectively allow the BC to score is not ensuring fair contest for the ball. But next time this situation arises I will not be repeating the actions I took before.
Your posts 27 and 29 indicate to me that you did know whart the law allows the tackled player to do, but that you felt it unfair. That does not suggest a missreading to me.

Sorry but that's how is read it.
 
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