Tackle/release inches from try line

Stu10

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I'm not sure if I made a mistake while refereeing this weekend and would appreciate input.

Maroon winger received the ball 7-8m from green try line, two green defenders latched onto him attempting to hold him up. Maroon kept legs pumping and got within a metre of the try line, he was halted just before the try line (defenders pretty much stood on try line, ball and attacker clearly still in FOP), maroon's knee (possibly both, can't remember) went to ground, I called "tackle, release", then both green defenders let go of the maroon player who dropped to the floor less than a foot from the try line (both green defenders remained stood up). Immediately after falling to the ground, maroon reached out with arms only (no other leg or body movement) and placed the ball on the try line. I awarded a try.

Green captain came to me "complaining" (he was very polite, not an issue) it was unfair that they were told to release the ball carrier on the try line, thus being forced to concede a try.

Was I technically correct? Should I have managed this differently? Was it on green to defend better - keep a body between ball and try line, or let maroon over the try line and hold the ball up?
 

Decorily

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Seems to me you were correct.
A tackled player is allowed to reach.
 

Dickie E


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Interesting. I have some sympathy for Green's situation but can't see how you could have made any other decision once you've called "tackle, release"
 

chbg


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OB will provide his commentary on this old conundrum.

Under Law, what you did was entirely correct. But was it empathetic to the defence? Is this an instance when it may be better to delay the "tackle, release" call until the situation has lost momentum? I then try to use a call of "Short" to instruct all to engage in the next phase.
 

Flish


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OB will provide his commentary on this old conundrum.

Under Law, what you did was entirely correct. But was it empathetic to the defence? Is this an instance when it may be better to delay the "tackle, release" call until the situation has lost momentum? I then try to use a call of "Short" to instruct all to engage in the next phase.

This, one I've learnt, and all good, until you have a scenario like SA vs FR when once on the ground a team mate shoves him over the line!
 

Decorily

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Under Law, what you did was entirely correct. But was it empathetic to the defence? Is this an instance when it may be better to delay the "tackle, release" call until the situation has lost momentum? I then try to use a call of "Short" to instruct all to engage in the next phase.
I wouldn't agree that the call should be delayed. The attacking player is entitled to the same 'empathy ' as the defenders.
 

Stu10

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OB will provide his commentary on this old conundrum.

Under Law, what you did was entirely correct. But was it empathetic to the defence? Is this an instance when it may be better to delay the "tackle, release" call until the situation has lost momentum? I then try to use a call of "Short" to instruct all to engage in the next phase.

I had already called that it was short, maroon had lost all forward momentum and I don't think was going to drive over the try line himself, and his support were not yet there to push him over.

I did wonder about waiting it out, but I wasn't sure what to wait for... the tackle was at a standstill, and ball carrier then went quickly to ground. Should I have waited to allow the defenders to strip the ball without a clear release first, but that would have been unfair to the ball carrier; I could have waited for extra players to arrive (I'm sure more attackers would have got there first to push the winger over compared to defenders getting back and through the gate), but they were being very slow to get there (I think everyone assumed he would score and stopped).

I entirely agree that it feels lacking in empathy for the defence, which is why I'm still reflecting on it, but genuinely not sure what I could have done differently.

At training on Wednesday I'm going to recreate the situation and see how we could defend it. I think the defender needs to drop with the ball carrier to keep his body blocking the try line, or bring him in-goal and hold up.
 
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Dickie E


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I wouldn't agree that the call should be delayed. The attacking player is entitled to the same 'empathy ' as the defenders.
it doesn't seem right for the ball carrier to simply get 1 knee on the ground then be allowed to flop over for a try
 

crossref


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It's a problem created by WR when they decided that one knee on floor is a tackle.
Obviously that Law has been great for speeding up the game generally .. this situation is the downside
 

Decorily

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it doesn't seem right for the ball carrier to simply get 1 knee on the ground then be allowed to flop over for a try
I agree it doesn't seem right when it clearly doesn’t meet the definition of a tackle in the first place but as Crossref says it's above our pay grade and WR want it refereed as so.

Edit..
It should be refereed the same in any area of the pitch.
 

tim White


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The call of 'Tackle, Release' was expected and consistent with what you would do anywhere else on the pitch. It would have been unfair to do anything else because they were near the try-line. The defenders had an extra player but still could not stop the winger from getting so close? Smart play by the winger to reach out, slow thinking by the defenders not to realise where they were and what they could do.
 

crossref


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I guess the defenders only chance was to drop to floor and try and get arms under the ball to hold it up
 

Stu10

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Thanks everyone for the input... you've given me reassurance that I did the correct thing. I did feel for the defenders at the time, but was equally aware I had to be fair to the attackers, and felt I was technically correct refereeing the tackle and that the ball carrier was entitled to place the ball.
 

didds

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》》》Green captain came to me "complaining" (he was very polite, not an issue) it was unfair that they were told to release the ball carrier on the try line, thus being forced to concede a try. 《《《

This is exactly the scenario OB postulated some time ago now, and has repeated at times since. OB has been proved correct in his concerns.


Bottom line? Its a try. And the conceding captain is understandably aggrieved.

I suppose the only thing one can say is another wise OB -ism " don't get into the position where this creates a scoring chance in the first place".
 

DocP


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14.5 - Tacklers must: a. Immediately release the ball and the ball-carrier after both players go to ground.


Feel free to shoot me down, but I was doing a brush up on my laws and the wording over the week and saw this regarding the tackle. The way I read that, the tackler does not have to release, ie let go completely, unless they go to ground as well. Is this bad wording, am I reading this wrong or is it redefined somewhere else in law?
If I implemented the law as I read it, @Stu10, this would partly solve the issue would it not?
 

Phil E


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14.5 - Tacklers must: a. Immediately release the ball and the ball-carrier after both players go to ground.


Feel free to shoot me down, but I was doing a brush up on my laws and the wording over the week and saw this regarding the tackle. The way I read that, the tackler does not have to release, ie let go completely, unless they go to ground as well. Is this bad wording, am I reading this wrong or is it redefined somewhere else in law?
If I implemented the law as I read it, @Stu10, this would partly solve the issue would it not?

You haven't read the whole law.

PLAYERS IN A TACKLE
4. c. Others :
i. Player(s) who hold the ball-carrier during a tackle but do not go to
ground.


8. Other players must :
a. Remain on their feet and release the ball and the ball-carrier immediately
 

DocP


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Ah, brilliant. You are correct, I hadn't got that far down on the page. We'll at least that clears that up.
 

Phil E


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Ah, brilliant. You are correct, I hadn't got that far down on the page. We'll at least that clears that up.

Unfortunately the way the laws are written doesn't always make it easy.
You can't read one individual law in isolation but have to take a holistic view to get the full picture.
 

DocP


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Sometimes I do feel like they need a bit of a re-ordering. There is stuff that is mentioned that is further along in the law book, mostly because it has been added at a later date (10m rule for instance) Was having a debate about that one with another ref in the changing room after the game with the book in front of us and we were still a little confused even though we knew the outcome that should come from that law
 
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