Time Off For Scrum Collapse

[belladonna]

Interesting that in FRA v SA BoK took time off for the collapsed scrums when time was almost up, but in the earlier game ENG v FIJ Matthieu Reynal did not, in exactly the same situation...

 

[Jz558]

Yep seems poor practice to me. If you wouldn't do it for earlier scrums then dont do it later in the game. If you think one side is wasting time at a scrum have the courage of your convictions to call it otherwise the scrum set up should be included in playing time

 

[crossref]

Yep seems poor practice to me. If you wouldn't do it for earlier scrums then dont do it later in the game. If you think one side is wasting time at a scrum have the courage of your convictions to call it otherwise the scrum set up should be included in playing time

Calling it means a FK so another scrum
Calling it a second time is a game deciding PK

Time off is quite a pragmatic alternative, keeps the ref out of the spotlight

 

[shebeen]

Same game. The drop goal pass that hit offsides french player, should be a scrum to green, right?

 

[belladonna]

Same game. The drop goal pass that hit offsides french player, should be a scrum to green, right?

Not sure which incident you're referring to... Did the offside player intentionally play the ball?

 

[shebeen]

Not sure which incident you're referring to... Did the offside player intentionally play the ball?

No. Pass from SH went into french player on the ground, 'intended' for FH to kick doy goal. BO'K ruled that it was an attempt to milk a penalty so play on, but ultimately player was offsides and affected play

 

[chbg]

No. Pass from SH went into french player on the ground, 'intended' for FH to kick doy goal. BO'K ruled that it was an attempt to milk a penalty so play on, but ultimately player was offsides and affected play

The only affect on play was that FdF aimed the ball at the French player rather than at his FH. Excellent refereeing to stop such tactics.

 

[didds]

The only affect on play was that FdF aimed the ball at the French player rather than at his FH. Excellent refereeing to stop such tactics.

this is in another thread I opened, but I cant see why such play (deleiberate passing into a offside player with no realistic actual pass occurring) wouldnt be a PK against the passer.

 

[pedr]

What about 'if a scrum is not completed, the game clock stops until the ball leaves a completed scrum or a free kick or penalty kick is awarded'? Time-off while a scrum is re-set, followed by time-on, another mess, time-off, 'stern' talk with front rows, reorganise, time-on, wobble after 'set'... delay to the ball going in, everyone falls over, ref gives a penalty one way or the other isn't terribly satisfactory. This would, sort of, compensate for the time wasted with the first unsuccessful scrum by not running the clock until one is finally completed and the ball is back in open play.

 

[Dickie E]

In AFL the timekeeper successfully stops & starts the clock at defined times without the umpire needing to tell him/her to do so. For example after a goal. No reason this couldn't happen for scrums in our game.

 

[Locke]

Personally, I like the referee having the discretion to keep time running or not in situations like this. Rigid rules can be exploited by teams looking to stall or slow down for whatever reason. In our current set up, the referee can respond to the specific circumstances, such as time left, score differential, behavior of teams, to manage the situation and encourage positive play. I wouldn’t want that to change.

 

[crossref]

. In our current set up, the referee can respond to the specific circumstances, such as time left, score differential, behavior of teams, to manage the situation and encourage positive play. I wouldn’t want that to change.

Would all those factors feed into, say, how advantage is handled ? (I would say so)

 

[Locke]

Would all those factors feed into, say, how advantage is handled ? (I would say so)

Yes.
I might be misunderstanding your point but I’m referring to being able to start and stop the clock.

 

[tim White]

I think it basically comes down to "Don't disrespect your opponents by wasting time". Stopping the clock is a warning about wasting time and a possible FK. I wish more top level refs would just tell them to get on with things -and mean it.

 

[crossref]

Yes.
I might be misunderstanding your point but I’m referring to being able to start and stop the clock.

Not exactly, you said that

In our current set up, the referee can respond to the specific circumstances, such as time left, score differential, behavior of teams, to manage the situation and encourage positive play. I wouldn’t want that to change.

ie. the reverse : the amount of time left on the clock is a factor in how you decide to manage the situation (which I would agree with).

Are there any circumstances where you would restart play AFTER time has run out?

 

[Locke]

Not exactly, you said that

ie. the reverse : the amount of time left on the clock is a factor in how you decide to manage the situation (which I would agree with).

Are there any circumstances where you would restart play AFTER time has run out?

There was that somewhat recent thread where I said I would restart with a scrum if I had given scrum advantage which didn’t materialize, regardless of what the clock said.

 

[didds]

I think it basically comes down to "Don't disrespect your opponents by wasting time". Stopping the clock is a warning about wasting time and a possible FK. I wish more top level refs would just tell them to get on with things -and mean it.

as I think somebody else pointed out, aside form it being an escalation, a FK for wasting time with scrum resets may oftebn end in... another scrum.

But of course it is escalation to a PK and I would imagine that escalation is very speedy ie the next time. With a card the next time.

 

[Shelflife]

What I would love to see at elite level scrum time is for the refs to implement the laws that are there.

Atm there are way too many resets that if we at the amateur level allowed we would be moved down a level.

Apply the laws, if they cant scrummage legally then PC,YC RC if wont be long until they chose to scrummage legally.

its a joke atm where scrums go down and are reset or scrums collapse and teams with a dominant scrum are ordered to play it even though they've being disadvantaged simply because the ref doesn't want another reset.

Every change in law in recent years regarding scrums is because the elite refs refuse to apply the current laws

 

[didds]

You've still got to be able to spot who was at faiult to card someone.
unless you are endorsing one ofr A, one for B, one for A, one for B of course and guessing

 

[Volun-selected]

What I would love to see at elite level scrum time is for the refs to implement the laws that are there.

Or just "what I would love to see at elite level scrum time is for the refs to implement the laws that are there."