to play or not to play

[Colt]

had a call from my DoR during the week saying there would be a pitch inspection at 11.00am for my game ko at 3pm on new year day.

I turned up early with oppo manager the 2 groundsmen ref co-ordinator had a warnder about groundsmen thought it might be ok by ko i wanted it to be, big important annual local derby match, frozen near the stand just about took a boot across the far side with a big stamp, ref co pushed a key in a few places, frost still laying in the shade, after 10 mins all clear given.

2nd occassion our 1sts had a league game pulled, 2 weeks earlier as ground was too hard, but round the corner, literally 3mins walk a nat club game went ahead. I left my club went to a local match, 5 mins drive, ground covered in frost/ light snow, swept the lines and the game was played, although after a few of the players I know said it was bloody hard out there.

As a ref I only ever recall stopping one game, north london as the fog decended to the point we could not see the other end of the pitch!

Question;
is there some standard to apply when making a pitch assesment. I do not understand the "its frozen" call as it seems no harder to me than some end of season pitches, like dust bowls and rock hard

It clearly is a personal choice by the ref but I was bemused by my 1sts not playing another team do play and another up the road are happy on frozen ground!

 

[OB..]

Hard but flat is different from frozen in being less slippery. Also frozen tends to be spiky. Moreover cold players are more likely to suffer injuries.

Never an easy decision. Our postponed league game from 19 December was postponed again yesterday. :sad:

 

[Greg Collins]

turned out y'day at a local 3 pitch club to find two pitches frozen hard, both in the shade you see. 1st XV oppo (LSE 3) decided it wasn't for them and cried off, home club 3rds decided to go ahead and their oppo felt the same. So we played 0 - 3 was final score everyone had a good run about and no one got hurt.

Inevitably in the bar afterwards I was grilled as to why my game had gone ahead on a pitch the 1st teams deemed unfit. Suggested they would need to speak to the respective captains. Pit ponies vs thorough breds and all that.

 

[dave_clark]

grilled by who? the players in your match, the first team prima donnas or by the club old farts?

 

[Davet]

Decision really down to the teams - as per RFU instructions, "clarified" just the other day by RFU as a response to the Wasps - Sale affair, where it now appears that David Rose was right all along...

 

[OB..]

Decision really down to the teams - as per RFU instructions, "clarified" just the other day by RFU as a response to the Wasps - Sale affair, where it now appears that David Rose was right all along...

Where can I find this clarification?

Does it rescind the Premiership regulation (which nobody knew about at the time)?

 

[Davet]

I heard it on Rugby Club, I think, or some ephemeral media, but it sounded Kosher.

 

[Greg Collins]

grilled by who? the players in your match, the first team prima donnas or by the club old farts?

pre-match... the fed ref and his fed assessor in the refs room before the game!!!! To which all I could say was both 'my' captains want to play so we will start and see how it goes. I then made myself scare

post-match... old fart's/alackadoo's and one or two of the 1st team. They all, bar one, seemed to think it was the refs call a la wendyball. Me and the bar one put them straight.

Fact was, despite lying second before the game and loosing to the bottom team in the league, the players in my match were chuffed to have got a game, no complaints from them or the spectators - most turned up to watch the firsts and stayed to watch the 3rds. All expressed fairly low opinions of the decisions of their big boys not to play.

 

[OB..]

If you walk gingerly across a frozen field you are less likely to hurt yourself than than if you jump in the air and land on your head.

That may not be a good characterisation of the difference in style between 1st and 3rd XVs, but I hope it gives the flavour. Does not the greater intensity and commitment increase the chances of injury? Does greater competence affect the issue?

I don't know any easy way of assessing the increased risk of injury from playing on a frozen pitch. Chacun à son goût.

 

[Dixie]

Where can I find this clarification?

Does it rescind the Premiership regulation (which nobody knew about at the time)?

OB, I'm guessing you've seen this. On another thread, I got the impression you felt it applied only to the premiership. Berks Society believes (and on its face, I agree) that it was written for a wider audience, intending to show that the GP is not out of line.

 

[stuart3826]

OB, I'm guessing you've seen this. On another thread, I got the impression you felt it applied only to the premiership. Berks Society believes (and on its face, I agree) that it was written for a wider audience, intending to show that the GP is not out of line.

I like the bit which says the RFU has issued clarification to the whole game.

I'm a ref, coach and CRefC, and heard of this only on this site!

 

[OB..]

Dixie - no I had not seen that. Thanks.

 

[Dixie]

I'm a ref, coach and CRefC, and heard of this only on this site!

:biggrin: Good to know that RugbyFirst is really helping the RFU in its game-wide communication!

 

[Staybound]

I think the degree of danger, on frozen pitches, is often a function of the weather that preceded the freeze and the use / care of the pitch. There are plenty of pitches at my lowly level that were mudbaths pre-Xmas and would have frozen in a very uneven, rutted way. In the past, at this time of year, I've been out on pitches where the chances of turning/breaking an ankle or falling on a sharp rut have, in my judgemnt, been dangerous. Of course there are (according to legend) pitches that are like bowling greens and when frozen are no worse than playing in September.

 

[ballsie]

Something for you wise sages to mull over something my sons said (24 years old and played since he was 6) whenen pitches are water logged the game is called off usually to save the pitch from being ruines
Yet clubs and officials will consider playing on a rock hard, rutted surface without at times comprimising player safety
if the pitches are frozen stay in the club house, I would not avocate playing on any frozen surface, if you wish to have fun in the snow and ice get your sledges out

 

[Simon Thomas]

:biggrin: Good to know that RugbyFirst is really helping the RFU in its game-wide communication!

hurrumph ! Bl**dy RugbyFirst again.

I saw the PR from RFU and read it as my Berkshire colleagues do, and is what we have been training our guys to do and always set as our policy for last decade. RFU Regs clearly state it, and only difference for the top few levels is regarding pitch inspections, so as to prevent un-necessary long distance travel if possibleI

Pre-match cancellation - club must have Comps Sec permission and usually a Society Ref is asked to inspect
Pre match on day skippers call
Once started - refs call (or skippers/coach) can claim a safety issue.

I assessed at Chippenham Saturday, and reffed a poor U17 Cup match yesterday - both pitches were hard but took a stud and were totally safe.