[In-goal] Try or held up

[didds]

[redacted]

 

[Phil E]

[redacted]

Are you in the CIA?

 

[Dickie E]

Pushing it out for a 22DO is not allowed

says who?

 

[OB..]

An attacking 5m scrum seems a paltry result for a defender preventing a try.

It depends how they prevent it. "Held up" is quite normal. Thee is a gap between the circumstances covered by 22.10 and by 22.11.

 

[ChrisR]

It depends how they prevent it. "Held up" is quite normal. Thee is a gap between the circumstances covered by 22.10 and by 22.11.

I make a distinction between "held up" where there is no possible/probable/immediate resolution (such as a defender under that ball with players on the ground) and a fluid situation of players on their feet.

With players on their feet there are several possible outcomes. The attacking player with the ball may be able to reach the ground to score the try or to offload to a teammate. The defender may be able to drive the attacker into TiG or DB to make the ball dead. Or the defender may drive the attacker back into the FoP.

My preference is to allow the contest to continue to a resolution but that seems to be in conflict with Law 22.10.

 

[OB..]

I make a distinction between "held up" where there is no possible/probable/immediate resolution (such as a defender under that ball with players on the ground) and a fluid situation of players on their feet.

Play on the ground can also be fluid.

With players on their feet there are several possible outcomes. The attacking player with the ball may be able to reach the ground to score the try or to offload to a teammate. The defender may be able to drive the attacker into TiG or DB to make the ball dead. Or the defender may drive the attacker back into the FoP.

My preference is to allow the contest to continue to a resolution but that seems to be in conflict with Law 22.10.

That sounds very much like the nineteenth century maul in goal, which I quoted in the other thread. It was abolished in 1892 and replaced by
[LAWS]If a player when over the goal line and in possession of the ball be fairly held by an opposing player before it is grounded, the ball shall be scrummaged five yards from the goal line, opposite the spot where the player was tackled.[/LAWS]

 

[ChrisR]

If there are only two players involved, attacker with the ball and a defender who grasps the attacker and bundles him into touch-in-goal.

What then?

 

[Dickie E]

Play on the ground can also be fluid.

Indeed. If a ball carrier slides into in goal and slides straight through to the DBL without grounding the ball (its a very slippery pitch) then that is a drop out, not a scrum. The concept of play fluidity makes sense to me.

 

[Phil E]

When Will Carling was (literally) held up in-goal. Did the referee blow immediately for "held up", or did he wait a while to see what developed?

 

[crossref]

can't see that often enough.

restart = 22DO, surely ?

 

[Camquin]

I assume so but I cannot remember what was actually given and you note just before the end of the clip a 'Quin picked up the ball looking for a scrum.

 

[Pinky]

says who?

For me, 22.10. It says play like a maul cannot take place in-goal, so if it does and the ball is not grounded, then I am going to blow for held up. In the Carling clip it was not a maul, but still I think I would blow for held up.