[Law] Two Yellow offences = red?

[MiniRef]

I watched a match on Saturday which got me thinking. Green penalised for offside, Gold SH takes quick tap and is immediately lifted, taken through horizontal and dropped onto his shoulder.
Ref gave YC to offending Green for dangerous tackle. This occurred around the half way line.

So, assuming the YC was the correct sanction, what should happen if this scenario occurred 5 metres from the line? (Almost certainly a penalty try based on the "beam him up" principle). But the "not ten" offence in the red zone would merit a YC in any case (I believe a penalty try now mandates a YC?).

Should the "YC dangerous tackle" + "YC for red zone not 10 professional foul" mean you would issue a Red?

 

[Rushforth]

No, 2x YC is RC only after the player has been off 10 minutes already.

 

[Decorily]

No, 2x YC is RC only after the player has been off 10 minutes already.

Don't think so...... YC and immediate unfavourable response warranting 2nd YC =RC in my book!!

 

[Rushforth]

Don't think so...... YC and immediate unfavourable response warranting 2nd YC =RC in my book!!

My book is

[LAWS]10.5 (b) A player who has been cautioned and temporarily suspended who then commits a second cautionable offence within the Foul Play Law must be sent-off.[/LAWS]

 

[Decorily]

My book is

[LAWS]10.5 (b) A player who has been cautioned and temporarily suspended who then commits a second cautionable offence within the Foul Play Law must be sent-off.[/LAWS]

Same book as mine Rushfort, from the moment I show the player the 1st YC he is temporarily suspended. If they then commit a second YC offence the second YC is issued followed by RC.

 

[Pegleg]

Yep I'd agree it is perfectly possible to issue a second YC before the player has left the field.

 

[Rushforth]

I'm answering the question as asked, and would not have a problem in converting a YC to RC myself either; my point was that committing two YC-worthy offences at once does not automatically mean red.

 

[RobLev]

Same book as mine Rushfort, from the moment I show the player the 1st YC he is temporarily suspended. If they then commit a second YC offence the second YC is issued followed by RC.

On the facts in the OP, you're going to have to be quick on the draw with the first YC...

 

[Pegleg]

I watched a match on Saturday which got me thinking. Green penalised for offside, Gold SH takes quick tap and is immediately lifted, taken through horizontal and dropped onto his shoulder.
Ref gave YC to offending Green for dangerous tackle. This occurred around the half way line.

I'd be thinking RED.

(I believe a penalty try now mandates a YC?)

Not so. The law is: 10.2 (a) INTENTIONAL OFFENDING

Should the "YC dangerous tackle" + "YC for red zone not 10 professional foul" mean you would issue a Red?

I would not issue the two together. (pedantically the not 20 came first mind). But a player issued a YC could get a second if, for example he then argues his case / refuses to leave the FOP etc. Although as said droping on to the shoulder head area sounds like a RC to me.

 

[OB..]

But a player issued a YC could get a second if, for example he then argues his case

This happened to a player from my club a few years ago. He got a three week ban.

A penalty try is in effect the consequence of a penalty offence, rather than the sanction for it.

 

[FlipFlop]

Yep I'd agree it is perfectly possible to issue a second YC before the player has left the field.

First ever red was one of these. YC for not 10, then up graded for slapping an oppo player as he left the field.

 

[Ian_Cook]

I agree with Rushforth on this one.

A player receiving a YC must be cautioned AND temporarily suspended. He has not been temporarily suspended until he reaches the sideline (and the 10 minute suspension begins at that point). His temporary suspension ends when he comes back onto the field.

A second YC (resulting in a RC) for answering back or arguing his case is manifestly unfair because you are catching him at an excitable moment. Its smacks of a "gotcha" mentality, and frankly, I think any referee that resorts to this has lost his cool, and with it, the respect and the confidence of the other players.

I have no problem with upgrading to a RC for a serious offence, but that is a different scenario.

 

[pedr]

So what happens to a player who (say) fails to roll away from a tackle, slowing the ball down after a team warning, but the referee plays advantage as the non-offending team is about to score a try anyway, at which point the player high-tackles the ball carrier. Both of the offences should result in a yellow card, in the opinion of the referee.

(Here's how that kind of scenario went down in an international soccer match recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY0DD120slk - no sound, and first offence isn't shown until the replay).

 

[Pegleg]

A second YC (resulting in a RC) for answering back or arguing his case is manifestly unfair because you are catching him at an excitable moment. Its smacks of a "gotcha" mentality, and frankly, I think any referee that resorts to this has lost his cool, and with it, the respect and the confidence of the other players.

I have no problem with upgrading to a RC for a serious offence, but that is a different scenario.

Obviously you judge the situation. All I'm saying is that it is possible that the second yellow (or even a straight red) CAN follow the first Yellow before the player has left the FOP.

If, for example a player wa arguing his case I would "suggest" that his captain talks to him OR "I may need to consider my options".

 

[Ian_Cook]

So what happens to a player who (say) fails to roll away from a tackle, slowing the ball down after a team warning, but the referee plays advantage as the non-offending team is about to score a try anyway, at which point the player high-tackles the ball carrier. Both of the offences should result in a yellow card, in the opinion of the referee.

I would only YC the second offence.

(Here's how that kind of scenario went down in an international soccer match recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY0DD120slk - no sound, and first offence isn't shown until the replay).

What Wendyball referees do is their business. It has no relevance to our game.

 

[Phil E]

A second YC (resulting in a RC) for answering back or arguing his case is manifestly unfair because you are catching him at an excitable moment. Its smacks of a "gotcha" mentality, and frankly, I think any referee that resorts to this has lost his cool, and with it, the respect and the confidence of the other players.

It depends entirely on what he says and does.

Answering back, having a chunter to himself is fine. Just get him off and speak to the Captain about his attitude when he comes back on.

But if he calls the ref a cheat or an F'in ******, then I don't care if he's at an excitable moment or not, he's getting a second yellow or a straight red, depending on what he said/did.

 

[FlipFlop]

For me it is a YC as soon as you show the YC. Not once he gets to the sidelines, and not before you show it.

Anything before you show it - the question is - is there a RC act? If not it is still a YC. After you show it - is it another YC act or straight RC.

I firmly disagree with Ian on the issuing a second card due to what they may say to you. Everytime I have done so (really = not that common) - the captain has stood they and just said words to the effect of "He's making it worse isn't he?", and there has been no surprise, or complaint at a second card (of any colour). (straight red for calling me a f@cking cheating C@&T and threatening to kill me after the game. And a 2nd yellow for continued dissent and refusal to leave the field. Both fully supported by assessor, and the Discipline, and coaches/captains had no complaints. The 2nd Yellow - it transpired he had history of verbal dissent)

 

[crossref]

i think the answer to the question is
- two YC-worthy playing offences (ie offence, you play advantage, second offence) does not equal a RC
- if you show a YC, and then get dissent, then a second YC (so a RC) is correct. [OR a straight RC if abuse]

 

[OB..]

He has not been temporarily suspended until he reaches the sideline

I disagree. The temporary suspension starts when the referee issues the YC.

As ever, it is not so much a matter of semantics, as what makes most sense.

 

[Ian_Cook]

It depends entirely on what he says and does.

Answering back, having a chunter to himself is fine. Just get him off and speak to the Captain about his attitude when he comes back on.

But if he calls the ref a cheat or an F'in ******, then I don't care if he's at an excitable moment or not, he's getting a second yellow or a straight red, depending on what he said/did.

Well, that's a RC anyway, so the point is moot.


What I am talking about is this...

Fred Smith commits YC offence (say, a high tackle)
Referee Bill Jones shows YC
Fred Smith says "Oh, come off it ref, he ducked into it"
Referee Bill Jones shows YC for dissent , and RC for the second yellow.

Referee Bill Jones is a dickhead!