[Law] Two Yellow offences = red?

[crossref]

Well, that's a RC anyway, so the point is moot.


What I am talking about is this...

Fred Smith commits YC offence (say, a high tackle)
Referee Bill Jones shows YC
Fred Smith says "Oh, come off it ref, he ducked into it"
Referee Bill Jones shows YC for dissent , and RC for the second yellow.

Referee Bill Jones is a dickhead!

in this example, yes, "Oh, come off it ref" isn't normally worthy of a YC ( IMO anyway)

but there IS a level of dissent that would justify a second YC, and therefore a RC.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Where's your threshold?

These are some of the responses I've had over the years to YCs for technical stuff/small beer foul play. When would you up it to a RC?

"You're joking" spoken and shouted.
"You're f'kin joking" shouted from distance.
"Oh f**k off!" shouted from 20m or so.
"Oh **** off" whilst smiling with arms outstretched and stood next to me.
"F**king biased referee"
"You cheat!"
"No f**kin waaaaaay!"


I'll tell you what I did later.

 

[didds]

cried?

 

[didds]

asked your wife a second time for permission to go and referee ?

 

[Dan_A]

Wow, not sure how I'd react to any of those and well worth thinking about before it happens - I'm currently only doing juniors so haven't had this level of dissent (yet).

Difficult to make theoretical calls without the context of the match, the exact tone of voice and body language etc.

Gut reaction is that accusations of bias or cheating are straight RC territory for me.

Everything else would probably be a recalling of the player and stern words with a final warning that they have 10mins to cool down, in the presence of their captain and at the very least.

Would love to know what others would do.

 

[crossref]

Where's your threshold?

These are some of the responses I've had over the years to YCs for technical stuff/small beer foul play. When would you up it to a RC?

"You're joking" spoken and shouted.
"You're f'kin joking" shouted from distance.
"Oh f**k off!" shouted from 20m or so.
"Oh **** off" whilst smiling with arms outstretched and stood next to me.
"F**king biased referee"
"You cheat!"
"No f**kin waaaaaay!"
.

the real point here, I think, is this :

let's say you'd just given a PK, and the response was one of the above. According to personal threshold some/all of these would then deserve a YC or RC

then consider the the scenario where you had just given a YC, and the response was one of the above. I'd say the sanction is exactly the same, and for those where your repsonse is YC, then 2xYC =RC

 

[Pegleg]

Wow, not sure how I'd react to any of those and well worth thinking about before it happens - I'm currently only doing juniors so haven't had this level of dissent (yet).

Difficult to make theoretical calls without the context of the match, the exact tone of voice and body language etc.

Gut reaction is that accusations of bias or cheating are straight RC territory for me.

Everything else would probably be a recalling of the player and stern words with a final warning that they have 10mins to cool down, in the presence of their captain and at the very least.

Would love to know what others would do.

Excellent point! Context is always important. But, certain things are non negotiable.

 

[dave_clark]

Where's your threshold?

These are some of the responses I've had over the years to YCs for technical stuff/small beer foul play. When would you up it to a RC?

"You're joking" spoken and shouted.
"You're f'kin joking" shouted from distance.
"Oh f**k off!" shouted from 20m or so.
"Oh **** off" whilst smiling with arms outstretched and stood next to me.
"F**king biased referee"
"You cheat!"
"No f**kin waaaaaay!"


I'll tell you what I did later.

5 and 6, straight red. no way is anyone going to accuse me of cheating.

3, consider a second yellow. i've got a pretty high tolerance of swearing, so wouldn't see this as materially worse that "piss off" or similar.

the others all sound like immediate frustration, so would be more likely just to get a word to calm down when back on the field (possibly a second yellow if not the first time).

at least that's what i'd like to think i'd do now. back when i was refereeing i was a nervous wreck, so would likely have panicked and backed away from the big call.

 

[davidlandy]

Gold SH takes quick tap and is immediately lifted, taken through horizontal and dropped onto his shoulder.
Ref gave YC to offending Green for dangerous tackle.

I was under the impression that the correct sanction for lifting a player and dropping them on their head or upper body was an automatic RC? Oh no, wait... sorry, I forgot, that only applies to Wales... :biggrin:

 

[Pegleg]

...Oh no, wait... sorry, I forgot, that only applies to Wales... :biggrin:

Do we really need to go over this again?

 

[davidlandy]

Do we really need to go over this again?

Sorry, was my bitterness showing?!?

I just thought it was strange that no one has mentioned yet that YC wasn't in fact the correct sanction in this case.

Or am I wrong - has the guidance changed?

 

[Pegleg]

In post 9 I refer to it being a red.

A a card carrying Taff I'm sick of the moaning about the "injustice" to Sam. The call was correct as confirmed by the citings that happened during the RWC 2011.

 

[OB..]

Well, that's a RC anyway, so the point is moot.


What I am talking about is this...

Fred Smith commits YC offence (say, a high tackle)
Referee Bill Jones shows YC
Fred Smith says "Oh, come off it ref, he ducked into it"
Referee Bill Jones shows YC for dissent , and RC for the second yellow.

Referee Bill Jones is a dickhead!

We could argue if the reaction was worth a YC, but IMHO the principle is sound that a player who has just received a YC does not have carte blanche to commit another YC offence without further sanction.

 

[Dickie E]

We could argue if the reaction was worth a YC, but IMHO the principle is sound that a player who has just received a YC does not have carte blanche to commit another YC offence without further sanction.

Certainly agree but it is an interesting discussion point about how much contrition we expect from a YC'd player

 

[OB..]

Certainly agree but it is an interesting discussion point about how much contrition we expect from a YC'd player

The principle applies to any second YC offence. Arguing over what sort of dissent is less than YC is not relevant to the principle of whether a player gets a free offence just because he has not yet completed/(started?) the punishment for the first.

 

[dave_clark]

I'll tell you what I did later.

how much later?

or was didds spot on?

:biggrin: